The Rev. Vosper Again

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revsdd said:
I can think of a lot of situations in which Presbyteries have done superb work. And I have known many colleagues in congregational polities who have been horribly treated by congregations and who have nowhere to turn for support because the nature of the polity doesn't facilitate even collegial relationships.
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Fair enough. The Baptist pastors I've had as leaders have each had other pastors as friends. I have witnessed and heard stories of Presbyteries being truly nasty to ministers though. In the case I was actually present to witness, the Presbytery swooped in to oust a minister from his congregation. Their doing so was really both brutal and sad.
 
Experience of Presbytery ... a sort of stop and think moment to allow understanding to catch up with the emotionally driven portions! We do despise alien things: strange words, people and things that speak to us quietly from the dark forces of sub conscience ... that which we never experienced in the light afore now ... is this purely abstract to those of absolute nature?

Thus the concept of opposing pariahs ... they need a vale to look across and envy the other's capacities ... conjugated ... there's no appropriate word for it but Moses Shaft ... a pole from the other direction! Chaos of Deis-Eire ... thus fits the continuum ... and goes on as if there's a' Moor to come ... a springtime fete?
 
Is "many" a distasteful moral majority in which we swim? The ET'IHC being upstanding conscience ... a rare stand-up, or stand alone ... giggling over the chaos of self and the understanding thereof?

Is the self complexly woven or just simple word?

A voice out of the silent past as made possible by genetic construct ... strings as Jinn-ease! Tis an experience to behold as a vent of penne 'd emotions ... stirring!
 
Jae said:
Can you think of times when Presbyterian have done good and proper work? I know a couple of what I consider to be horror stories in which Presbyteries did awful things. And now this. Moving forward, the United Church should really consider moving to a congregational style of government.
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Stupid autocorrect. I didn't mean to write "Presbyterian."
 
Jae said:
Fair enough. The Baptist pastors I've had as leaders have each had other pastors as friends. I have witnessed and heard stories of Presbyteries being truly nasty to ministers though. In the case I was actually present to witness, the Presbytery swooped in to oust a minister from his congregation. Their doing so was really both brutal and sad.
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As I said before, Presbyteries sometimes screw up because they're run by imperfect humans. No polity produces perfect results every time.
 
Something to be experienced from an outside vision ... just as moles looking in ... frightful creatures given the sacred nature ...
 
chansen said:
Right. Many West Hill people felt marginalized and abandoned (there I go using "many" again - I'm expecting a new backlash for this one). Presbytery should have done something from everything I've heard.

I'm not sure how the answer is to marginalize.everyone whow stayed and subsequently joined. Two wrongs, etc.
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Agreeing with @revsdd. . . . 2/3 of a congregation qualifies as "many" and the word can be used accurately.

The number 100 has been stated a few times by the media.

Personally, I don't think I have ever used the words "marginalized" or "abandoned" to describe my experience at WHUC but I would say you have captured the general idea.

As for the current congregation, it is in an unfortunate position. But as the revs have explained on previous occasions, ministry personnel have responsibilities to the wider church in addition to serving their congregations. We probably do not need to cover this ground again.
 
In ancient Hebrew 100 was a community; town, village, urban chaos ...

Confusing when people gather in bazaar places ... away from nature! Causes much chatter ... to keep the silence out ...
 
The responsibilities in this case are about protecting the teaching of and belief in the indefensible. I don't think that can be stated enough.
 
chansen said:
The responsibilities in this case are about protecting the teaching of and belief in the indefensible. I don't think that can be stated enough.
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I.E. ... What do we really know as a people of god directed not to (know that is if you isolate some verses from the whole understanding)! Tis a Dark Space to enter in there ... and thus God fearing people shy away from literary etudes ... psyche science or mental oddity?
 
chansen said:
The responsibilities in this case are about protecting the teaching of and belief in the indefensible. I don't think that can be stated enough.
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The purpose of the Church is to teach and encourage belief in that which you deem to be indefensible.
 
Youve had 2000 years to come up with something impressive, and yet look at the state of Christianity. As long as people are promoting the idea that Rev. Vosper needs to go, I think it's important to highlight how flimsy the beliefs she refused to promote really are.
 
chansen said:
Youve had 2000 years to come up with something impressive, and yet look at the state of Christianity.
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While Christianity is dying in North America and western Europe, it is also the fastest-growing religion in the world, particularly in Africa, Asia, and Latin America.

chansen said:
As long as people are promoting the idea that Rev. Vosper needs to go, I think it's important to highlight how flimsy the beliefs she refused to promote really are.
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I agree that it's fair to examine the beliefs. Understandably, I would not describe them as "flimsy."
 
Jae said:
The purpose of the Church is to teach and encourage belief in that which you deem to be indefensible.
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I would say the purpose is to teach understanding instead of the conflict and conflagrations caused by the avarice of gods ... thus the devilish situation we're in ... a test, or a trial for further succession-isms? Pure satyr in the end ... something to look into ... as a fissure marked darkly on the page buoyed (yeomen)?
 
revsdd said:
No polity produces perfect results every time.
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This. Exactly this. Having been in a church with a congregational polity, I can safely say that polity has its issues, too. There is really nowhere to turn if the congregation is being dysfunctional or badly run. I do think it is the best polity for UUism, but it has its trade-offs.
 
chansen said:
Youve had 2000 years to come up with something impressive, and yet look at the state of Christianity. As long as people are promoting the idea that Rev. Vosper needs to go, I think it's important to highlight how flimsy the beliefs she refused to promote really are.
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You may not need to keep repeating your worldview as an atheist. We hear you.
 
In politic is the medium inside or outside the paradigm as accepted by both sides ... allowing for an alternate duality? Black Swan as unexpected out come?
 
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