The Rev. Vosper Again

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chansen said:
Why the hell is anyone kneeling and cowering before God? Who is cowering before Rev. Vosper? They are afraid of their own members - not her. This will split opinions and open wounds. They will wait as long as they can to make a decision.
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Would suggest that no one is cowering before God although we have a certain tradition of kneeling before God.

Who is cowering before Rev. Vosper? No one that I know of although sometimes it seems we handle her with kid gloves.

Agree that opinions are being split and wounds opened. And this will likely intensify when a decision is reached.

I don't believe there is any intent to delay making the decision at this point. There could be more legal wrangling going on than we can even imagine.
 
GordW said:
ANd a response
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9chx3knpFOvSERISWUtRmpOUVU/view

ANd I note that in academic circles if yours is the one study that suggests an answer that contradicts all the other studies, and especially when the answer which contradicts other studies reaffirms your pre-existing beliefs, then you have to ask why that is...

Are you smarter than every one else? Have you asked the question differently? Have conditions changed radically since the other studies took place?
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Another article, from a UCCan perspective, on evangelical churches. Raises some interesting points.

http://www.ucobserver.org/faith/2016/11/evangelical_sizzle/

-the growth of evangelical churches, in Canada, is largely due to recent immigrants
-LGBTQ equality will become an issue for these churches
-is it possible for the UCCan to do justice to both interfaith and ecumenical dialogue?
 
Inukshuk said:
Another article, from a UCCan perspective, on evangelical churches. Raises some interesting points.

http://www.ucobserver.org/faith/2016/11/evangelical_sizzle/

-the growth of evangelical churches, in Canada, is largely due to recent immigrants
-LGBTQ equality will become an issue for these churches
-is it possible for the UCCan to do justice to both interfaith and ecumenical dialogue?
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Agree with the first part (immigrants), skeptical of the second (LGBTQ), not sure about the third (UCCanada).
 
LGBTQ equality is already becoming an issue for evangelical churches - in Canada and the US - as more and more evangelicals come to the conclusion that it's not an offence to the faith. Michael Coren here in Canada. In the US, Tony Campolo, Rob Bell, David Neff (former editor of Christianity Today), David Gushee (a well known Christian ethicist). I'm not saying the flooodgates are opened in evangelical circles to believing the LGBTQ lifestyle(s) acceptable, but certainly cracks have appeared.
 
CHurches in Canada, historically, have grown for two main reasons: immigration and birth rate. The second is the main reason the UCCan reached what it believed to be the "new normal" in the Baby Boom years. However, as @chansen loves to point out, the birthrate growth is no longer reliable as (nor has it been for the last 40-50 years). And the UCCan has never done well with immigration-based growth, largely because there is no equivalent church that people come from to slide across to the UCCan (as opposed to international denominations like Presbyterian, Roman Catholic, Baptist....)
 
GordW said:
CHurches in Canada, historically, have grown for two main reasons: immigration and birth rate. The second is the main reason the UCCan reached what it believed to be the "new normal" in the Baby Boom years. However, as @chansen loves to point out, the birthrate growth is no longer reliable as (nor has it been for the last 40-50 years). And the UCCan has never done well with immigration-based growth, largely because there is no equivalent church that people come from to slide across to the UCCan (as opposed to international denominations like Presbyterian, Roman Catholic, Baptist....)
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Do I harp on the birthrate thing? I recall mentioning it. Sorry if I go on about it too much.

One of my related recurring points is that you can't manage to keep the kids you do pump out. If you let them be too rounded and exposed to different beliefs and ideas, that's a threat to retaining them. The best method for retaining children in the faith is to keep them isolated (home schooling seems to work great) and in a bubble. Don't give them social skills so they don't make friends outside the faith. Teach them that people of other faiths and no faith will one day be tortured for eternity, to give them a smugness that can only come from knowing that all the bad people who don't agree with them will suffer.
 
Like Donald Trump gives a flying f*** about Christianity.

To say that Christianity is "under seige" in the US is a slap in the face to Christians who really are being attacked for their faith. A faith shared by almost all former presidents and over half the country is not "under seige". Not being able to force kids to listen as you proselytize in schools is not being "under seige". Not being allowed to discriminate based on your idiotic faith rules is not being "under seige".

It plays to his customers, so he'll say it. He may even do things to further allow Christians to discriminate. But it's not because he believes it. It's more likely that Trump is an atheist than it is that Obama is an atheist, and I think Obama is an atheist.

Donald Trump believes in sales. He managed to get enough people to buy into his rhetoric that he's going to be in the White House. But Christianity being under seige is just something he's been told to say because it will play well. Probably by two Corinthians.
 
We do keep some of our kids. Most of them hang around the fringes (although my son was a member of the Outreach Team when he lived here) until they get married and have children, and then they bring their children back, if they stick around; people are pretty mobile. My son checks out the UCCan first when he goes anywhere.

I don't think of the UCCan as diminishing as much as right-sizing. The congregations that have a solid heart thrive, it seems. We just need a few less of them than two in every damned village in Canada.
 
revsdd said:
LGBTQ equality is already becoming an issue for evangelical churches - in Canada and the US - as more and more evangelicals come to the conclusion that it's not an offence to the faith. Michael Coren here in Canada. In the US, Tony Campolo, Rob Bell, David Neff (former editor of Christianity Today), David Gushee (a well known Christian ethicist). I'm not saying the flooodgates are opened in evangelical circles to believing the LGBTQ lifestyle(s) acceptable, but certainly cracks have appeared.
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Extremely small cracks Steven, extremely small. Coren is not an evangelical. He's part of a mainline Anglican church.
 
I'm still not giving him even 4 minutes of my time. 20 seconds of cheetoh-faced horror was enough for today.

Who are "Christians"? You're one, PG13, I gather. I'm one. Now, exactly what do we have in common? On what topic might we ever agree? Calling on all Christians to do something is like calling all Irish to do something, or all Jews to do something. Not gonna happen...
 
Jae said:
Extremely small cracks Steven, extremely small. Coren is not an evangelical. He's part of a mainline Anglican church.
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Interesting that you think evangelicals can be identified by what denomination they belong to. It helps of course by giving you the opportunity to dismiss him.
 
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