You're surprised that the majority of a Christian congregation in a Christan church in a Christian denomination left being led by an atheist minister?
The Rev. Vosper Again
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You're surprised that the majority of a Christian congregation in a Christan church in a Christian denomination left being led by an atheist minister?
BetteTheRed
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No, it is very surprising that if 2/3 of a congregation were unhappy with a minister and left, why, instead, the 1/3 and the minister that the 2/3rds were unhappy with, left instead, perhaps to become a Unitarian congregation. I am wondering about the lack of oversight of presbytery here, and if this isn't further evidence that they and conference, while often duplicating processes, sometimes drop them instead. The activities of West Hill and Gretta have not been a big secret in the UCCan.
Lastpointe
Well-Known Member
Yes Bette, that was my thought. If a minister is taking a congregation in a direction they dont want to go, it is surprising that the minister didnt leave /get replaced. Granted people would leave to follow her but seems more logical
I imagine that those who left were good souls who, while they did not want to be led by an atheist, also didn't want to try to turf her lest doing so create a split in the church.
crazyheart
Rest In Peace: tomorrow,tomorrow
Where was the oversight? Did Gretta have a following in Conference? That would not surprise me.
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
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This part of the story does not receive as much coverage as certain other aspects of the tale. But it has been mentioned quite publicly on occasion.
GordW
Church-Geek-Oramus
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IIRC there were discussions at the Presbytery level on at least one occasion There was not a majority in the court (or executive not sure which) wanting/seeing a need to press ahead.
chansen
Had a point all along
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Based on what's going on now, no wonder.
This can is being kicked down the road because there is no winning this one. Plus, no matter the outcome, the rabidly anti-Gretta contingent will come out in force. That's not going to be a good look on the UCCan. You guys still have some rather embarrassing members, and nothing inspires them to give regrettable sound bites like Rev. Vosper.
This can is being kicked down the road because there is no winning this one. Plus, no matter the outcome, the rabidly anti-Gretta contingent will come out in force. That's not going to be a good look on the UCCan. You guys still have some rather embarrassing members, and nothing inspires them to give regrettable sound bites like Rev. Vosper.
chansen
Had a point all along
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Why the hell is anyone kneeling and cowering before God? Who is cowering before Rev. Vosper? They are afraid of their own members - not her. This will split opinions and open wounds. They will wait as long as they can to make a decision.
BetteTheRed
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What church? What woman? What god?
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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The United Church of Canada, Gretta Vosper, the god commonly known as Yahweh or just God.
BetteTheRed
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Could this not be an echo of people decrying the catholic church's relationship with Mary?
Why do we feel so compelled to circle the wagons? Why won't we let (me) in?
Why do we feel so compelled to circle the wagons? Why won't we let (me) in?
GordW
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OTOH, why do we feel compelled to be the group that places inclusivity as an idol (which it most certainly has become in the UCCan) of higher importance than stating that we are a faith group that has certain base beliefs/faith statements that make us who we are? What does it mean to be a Christians denomination? what does it not mean? IT really is a key question, one with no clear cut answer it seems.
New study on the dramatic growth of evangelical churches with contemporary worship and rapidly declining mainline churches like UCCan:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/1...rship-teach-literal-interpretation-bible.html
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/1...rship-teach-literal-interpretation-bible.html
GordW
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ANd a response
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9chx3knpFOvSERISWUtRmpOUVU/view
ANd I note that in academic circles if yours is the one study that suggests an answer that contradicts all the other studies, and especially when the answer which contradicts other studies reaffirms your pre-existing beliefs, then you have to ask why that is...
Are you smarter than every one else? Have you asked the question differently? Have conditions changed radically since the other studies took place?
Maybe the gospel is supposed to be more offensive?
Or do you suddenly realize that your minor reasons don't stack up to god's greater sole ... and that as mortal we know little ... thus the judgement rests ... God bless hos soul with delight in knowing what's beyond here as denied small capital Christian apologetics that still believe in reasoning about what we don't know ... thus etiology goes on ...
And reason as rational does go against the purely irrational that advance on dreams alone ... thus the Hebrew is out of question ... for we don't really reason with it ... to ambiguous for those that know certainty ... and they'd rather not know it ... without question!