The Lord of Vengeance - Psalm 94

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Does anyone still actually believe that? I mean, maybe believe that they are blessed if they follow God's will but that sounds rather like Divine Right monarchy. I know the evangelicals kind of regarded Trump as God's chosen (apparently less so second time around) but how much of that was sincere belief and how much was just supporting the guy who might actually implement some of their policies? My sense is the latter and that they would happily turn on him if he didn't live up (and some have).
I first encountered this idea actually from my Brother who helped bring me to Christ...he is of Ukranian stock and has been deeply troubled by that whole situation and is so gentle and peaceful

One day he was talking with me (he is great at extemporizing I believe the term is? He has spent a great deal of his employed life in radio and I have encountered many of his impromptu sermons and his Grace at meals are always unique and heartfelt) and he said that Zelenskyy has his authority from God and that we are to follow that authority. We aren't to do such things as murder and such. God grants Zelenskyy the authority to do those things.


This shocked me.

Made me feel uncomfortable.

I just listened to him

And looking around, I see


I wonder if anyone knows truly how many believe this way?
 
What aboot you, Mendalla, in all your religion surfing you have done in your time here on Earth?
I don't know anyone personally who believes it of their leaders today. I suppose the Russian Orthodox might be saying it of Putin but I have not heard that. Certainly there's lots of historical antecedent for the idea of rulers having God's favour but those mostly refer to autocratic systems of government like monarchies and empires. Divine Right monarchy in Europe, remnants of which still show up in our modern monarchy's ceremonies even if very few of us really believe Chuck 3 is king "by the Grace of God". Of course, the idea goes back to Mesopotamia and especially Egypt, where the pharoahs were sometimes regarded as divine. The divinity of Roman emperors was a mixed bag, with some treating it more just as a title while others took it rather too seriously. The Chinese concept of the Mandate of Heaven would be another example. They believed that the emperor had the favour of Heaven but that things like natural disaster and civil unrest meant they had lost Heaven's favour.

he said that Zelenskyy has his authority from God and that we are to follow that authority. We aren't to do such things as murder and such. God grants Zelenskyy the authority to do those things.
Oh good f-ing God, that's just a return to Divine Right monarchy and we all know how well that went. Hope Zelensky is smart enough not to let that kind of talk go to his head or we'll have Putin 2.0 on our hands if he actually wins this war.
 
And some have the impression from a strange blow or shot that every action has a reaction so the scales can function to float what otherwise would have been a sinker ... creating some ups and downs as waves on mythological Zaes 4 sure ... in other traditions this may pop up as Ci Jack ... dissonance arising because of in equitable tensions and stress on the lower populace ignored by those taking position of responsibility. Then the obliterate the ide of onus ... as bad NU's is a bad barer to those that expect only please at seeing the alternate descend! Xae Zues/ JaSue as poorly suited in legitimate extension ... or illegitimated ... because of mindfulness! Powers hate stinking thinkers on great fluffy thrones ... dreamers?

This may cover for an idea of Ego backstage of darkly observing the word as it plays out ... Alter Ego? An alien sentient to those wishing one character to take the heat ... thus Dan and the image fighting fires under the global stage ... as metaphor of Zeus expectorating as a sign of earthly stress ...

Of course for those refusing knowledge and learning this could be taken as diabolical and a twinned situation as our chimera*L nucleic acid system that acts as a registry in reflection! One side is dark as Moe' sigh ... that thing in the tree's'dhow ... a vessel when what isn't maybe placed in a RIP 'r ... Jack? Then thoughts of past arise in intangible dimensions, domains and spots out there ...

There are those that cannot see the Nordic side of the tree because of fixed positions ... edifice?

From there the myth, legends of Pigs, etc. extend into obliterated areas and volumes as flat dimension expand ... cells burst! Thus celebrity fails it's limits ... and spark extinguish for rest, the left remainders ... detritus that will agitate the well positioned? Knows *eight ...

The asterisk in story takes the place of the Hebrew heh that is space doubt ... ה (he) that simulates the ח (het) that when adequately connected becomes a blind space and perhaps giving rise to Alice's donning the red hat as a bloody expression! When entering strange folk lore, you begin to observe many misinterpretations of who has the avarice over a psyche that is greater than mortal could conceive and thus a devil to those assuming power without beta support ... in alternate tongues ב (bet) an open faced learning spirit that may simulate animus (spirit of woman in a'm'n? A mass of folk are against this as psyche badly bared intelligence ... rye troth in blarney ... that's Eire Ah? Mental winds? What shade? Spectra evolves red indicating departure and blue the oncoming ... busting the desires in realization!

Fringe images as alien elements? Farce Ide flash as blitz'd ... Papa Yocum!
 
When the gospel and truth falls short ... allow for projection of amyth about how folly occurred ... to be corrected latently ... it is hinted that the great father will call you intent for the record! There amethyst bruised and battered for dipping in the pot ... A' ferrous? Amity thingy ...

In the end that is all that is left ... good, bad, or ugly is up to you, me and I putting the vision together ... from out there perhaps a booty of tragic comedy! Pathological ... a dark science in observation of things preferred to be left under cover ... psychosis vs neurotic where a shard of humanity is weighted with conscience ... and realize what they are up against ... avarice ... bare urges? Ursa La ... or EL/ELLE combined and connected ... unbelievable to those of anti connection and resistant modes ... hard realists!
 
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I think much research needs to go into this subject of submitting to Government Authorities as I think it is being taken out of Context and being misunderstood ------
he said that Zelenskyy has his authority from God and that we are to follow that authority. We aren't to do such things as murder and such. God grants Zelenskyy the authority to do those things.
No God did not grant Zelensky to murder -----that would make God a liar ---as do not commit murder is a Law that God made Himself -------and God cannot go against what He Himself has said -----or God and His word is a big fat lie ----

These 3 Refused submission to their Authority and were protected by God -----

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego refused to bow down to their authority -----and were thrown into a fiery furnace and came out unscathed God protected them -----

Also Daniel Refused to obey King Darius when told not to pray to God -----and he was thrown into the lion's den --and God saved him ----

So I think people are misunderstanding what submission to authority is meaning ------this can be dangerous preaching as this is saying God is authorising evil ------and that goes against scripture -----

James 1:13-15 Amplified Bible​

13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God” [for temptation does not originate from God, but from our own flaws]; for God cannot be tempted by [what is] evil, and He Himself tempts no one.

14 But each one is tempted when he is dragged away, enticed and baited [to commit sin] by his own [worldly] desire (lust, passion).

15 Then when the illicit desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin has run its course, it gives birth to death.



Here Peter and John go against appointed Jewish Leaders ----Read Verses 18-19

Acts 4​

Easy-to-Read Version​

The Apostles and the Jewish High Council​

4 While Peter and John were speaking to the people, some Jewish leaders came up to them. There were some priests, the captain of the soldiers that guarded the Temple, and some Sadducees.

2 They were upset because of what Peter and John were teaching the people. By telling people about Jesus, the apostles were teaching that people will rise from death.

3 The Jewish leaders arrested Peter and John and put them in jail

18 So the Jewish leaders called Peter and John in again. They told the apostles not to say anything or to teach anything in the name of Jesus.

19 But Peter and John answered them, “What do you think is right? What would God want? Should we obey you or God?

20 We cannot be quiet. We must tell people about what we have seen and heard


------God's Children are to obey God Not man -----


Romans 13:1---NOTE HERE :---this is to Believers ----Born Again people -----So when you research this it doesn't mean that we are to go against God's WILL for Us -----and we have the OK to do what is evil in God's eyes ----


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What does Romans 13:1 mean?​

In Romans 12, Paul described what it means to be a living-sacrifice Christian. In short, it mostly has to do with setting ourselves aside to serve the Lord, each other, and even our enemies in love

Now Paul turns to the issue of how Christians who are saved by God's grace should interact with our present governments.

He describes the biblical doctrine of submission to human authorities, something Peter also teaches (1 Peter 2:13–17). Again, those in Christ are called to set themselves aside and to trust God to provide what is needed through those in authority, whether good or evil.

Paul is clear that this applies to every person. He calls for us to be in submission to government authorities, though he does not say that we must obey them in all cases. Paul and the other apostles refused to obey commands from people in authority to stop preaching the gospel, for instance (Acts 5:27–29).

They did, however, submit to those in authority in all matters that were not in contradiction to the will of God.


Why should we submit? Paul is clear: Every authority in the world was established by God. This would include, of course, good leaders, evil leaders, and everyone in-between.

Paul's instruction here, then, is not about blind nationalism or absolute obedience to men.

Rather, it is a recognition that human government—in general—is a legitimate authority, and that Christians cannot use their faith as an excuse for civil lawlessness. God puts all leaders in place for the specific reasons Paul will describe in the following verses.

We should remember that Paul is writing this letter to Christians in Rome. The government of Rome ruled much of the known world at the time. It was led by the Emperor Nero from AD 54–68. Nero is famous for his cruel and unfair treatment of Christians, among other groups. We must not assume that Paul is writing these words lightly. He was aware of the implications of his teaching

Context Summary
Romans 13:1–7 describes the responsibility for Christians to live in submission to the human authorities in government. The reason given is that every government leader has ultimately been established by God for His own purposes. Generally speaking, human government serves to rein in and punish those who do evil. Governments do this on God's behalf.

Christians must pay their taxes to support this work God is doing. In addition, those in Christ owe respect and honor to the authorities that God has put in place. Other Scriptures, such as Acts 5:27–29, distinguish between ''submission'' and ''obedience.'

God says this ----

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unsafe said:
Why should we submit? Paul is clear: Every authority in the world was established by God. This would include, of course, good leaders, evil leaders, and everyone in-between.

Holy s**t, so the German churches that stayed silent or even supported Hitler were right and Bonhoeffer was wrong? That's just, well, seriously messed up.

And if you read the Psalm in question. the psalmist clearly calls upon God to protect him from "wicked rulers" per below.

Can wicked rulers be allied with you,
those who contrive mischief by statute?
21 They band together against the life of the righteous
and condemn the innocent to death.
22 But the Lord has become my stronghold
and my God the rock of my refuge.
23 He will repay them for their iniquity
and wipe them out for their wickedness;
the Lord our God will wipe them out.
How does that jibe with "Every authority in the world was established by God"?

And, frankly, Paul paid the price given that he died in Nero's persecution, at least according to tradition.
 
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Holy s**t, so the German churches that stayed silent or even supported Hitler were right and Bonhoeffer was wrong? That's just, well, seriously messed up.

And if you read the Psalm in question. the psalmist clearly calls upon God to protect him from "wicked rulers" per below.


How does that jibe with "Every authority in the world was established by God"?

And, frankly, Paul paid the price given that he died in Nero's persecution, at least according to tradition.
But wasn't it mentioned that if the political leaders go against Gods teachings, you are to follow God not the leaders?
 
But wasn't it mentioned that if the political leaders go against Gods teachings, you are to follow God not the leaders?
I sure hope so. I find unsafe's posts hard to read at the best of times but maybe it is there. It's just that particular couple lines was bolded as if for emphasis or importance.
 
Mendalla ---you can read the whole article ---I am just posting this part of it

Maybe this will help make it clearer ----


What Being Subject to Governing Authorities Means​

What does have to be qualified is verse 3. In view of what Paul knows about the miscarriage of justice in the death of Jesus, he can't have meant it to be an absolute fact with no exceptions when he said in verse 3, "Rulers are not a terror to good conduct . . . Do good, and you will receive their praise." This verse and the next one must be a general statement of how governments should and often do function. Paul simply does not have in view the problem of evil governments. Instead he has in view a good government in which doing good deeds will generally find approval and doing evil will generally be punished.

If this is correct, then it will no longer be possible to insist that Christians should always be subject to the governing authorities. As long as authorities punish only what is evil and praise only what is good, submission to God will always conform to submission to the authorities. But if the authorities ever begin to punish the good and reward the bad (as has repeatedly happened in church history), then submission to God will bring us into conflict with the authorities. So the command to be subject in verses 1 and 5 is not absolute; it depends on whether subjection will involve us in doing wrong. The ultimate criterion of right and wrong is not whether a ruling authority commands it, but whether God commands it. The fact that God has ordained all authority does not mean all authority should be obeyed. It is right to resist what God has appointed in order to obey what God has commanded. His appointment of Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, Darius, Pilate, Domitian, Bloody Mary, Adolf Hitler, and Idi Amin may be for our testing (cf. Deuteronomy 13:3). Will we save our lives and submit to the ruling authority, or will we say with Peter, "We must obey God rather than men," and thus risk our lives
 
Holy s**t, so the German churches that stayed silent or even supported Hitler were right and Bonhoeffer was wrong? That's just, well, seriously messed up.

And if you read the Psalm in question. the psalmist clearly calls upon God to protect him from "wicked rulers" per below.


How does that jibe with "Every authority in the world was established by God"?

And, frankly, Paul paid the price given that he died in Nero's persecution, at least according to tradition.

Primarily one should have the ability to know the divide between good and evil ... a dilema as the man-made gods would rather the people know little ... but the divine abyss would allow the essences, etc. of truth and vitue! Like that air/Eire over the caldron ... diabolical what folk-paranoia make of it!
 
@unsafe

Hey, I got a reply from you! woo hoo! ty :3

yes, all the killing that God has done is, by definition, not murder (which is illegal or unjustified killing)?

My friend has been mind f***ed by this stupid war, he is a gentle and peaceful guy, and he, then, I think was trying to come up with justifications for this senseless conflict

Its part of what we humans do

We take this insanely complex world and try to make it fit into a neater box
 
@unsafe

Hey, I got a reply from you! woo hoo! ty :3

yes, all the killing that God has done is, by definition, not murder (which is illegal or unjustified killing)?

My friend has been mind f***ed by this stupid war, he is a gentle and peaceful guy, and he, then, I think was trying to come up with justifications for this senseless conflict

Its part of what we humans do

We take this insanely complex world and try to make it fit into a neater box
The god that is intangible and ineffible because of the out-there character ... mortals do not see that far into a'head ... blast ... hornblower?
 
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