The Joys of John

[unsafe]

Here is the sad thing about today'

I can't help but think John the Evangelist is putting words into the mouth of John the Baptist

interesting ---------Can you give an example of what you mean here ----what words do you think John the Evangelist is putting into John the Baptise's mouth ----

 

[paradox3]

Today's passage is probably a good example @unsafe but I don't want to nitpick the reading.

Many scholars consider the gospel of John to be more theological statement than history.

The profound lesson of this text is that John the Baptist points the way to Jesus. And gladly steps out of the limelight, so to speak.

 

[unsafe]

LOL ---OK ---thanks for your reply -----here is the truth ---when these Scholars die ---they will know the real truth Pretty Quick on whether John's Gospel is Historical or Theological --before God passes Judgment on them -----so sad ----as they waist their whole stressful lives trying to figure something out that they can't possibly figure out ----

if these Scholars have not received Jesus in their hearts when they die ----their intellectual arguments are of no use to them as it clearly states in today's Scripture verse 36

36 He who believes and trusts in the Son and accepts Him [as Savior] has eternal life [that is, already possesses it];

but he who does not believe the Son and chooses to reject Him, [disobeying Him and denying Him as Savior] will not see [eternal] life, but [instead] the wrath of God hangs over him continually.”

We Humans are so full of ourselves ----complicating God's word is more fun to us than really trying to understand it and live it ---and reap the eternal reward in our end -----

very sad --just my feeling

 

[paradox3]

Agreeing with @unsafe that we humans overthink matters of faith sometimes

 

[GordW]

Today's passage is probably a good example @unsafe but I don't want to nitpick the reading.

Many scholars consider the gospel of John to be more theological statement than history.

The profound lesson of this text is that John the Baptist points the way to Jesus. And gladly steps out of the limelight, so to speak.

IMO ALL of Scripture is history mixed with theology. Sometimes it is history theologized, sometimes it is theology historicized. And without external primary sources to corroborate the text it is hard to know where the actual history lies.

I would agree that the primary purpose of all the gospels, perhaps particularly John, is to share theological understandings by telling the story of Jesus.

 

[Jaebius]

John 3:22-36

Bible Gateway passage: John 3:22-36 - New English Translation

Further Testimony About Jesus by John the Baptist - After this, Jesus and his disciples came into Judean territory, and there he spent time with them and was baptizing. John was also baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because water was plentiful there, and people were coming to him and being...

www.biblegateway.com

The gospel writer gives us further testimony about Jesus by John the Baptist.

I can't help but think John the Evangelist is putting words into the mouth of John the Baptist. @unsafe and @Jaebius will disagree.

Among other things, John the Baptist says that the one who believes in the Son has eternal life.

But here's the really interesting thing about this reading. John talks about Jesus spending time with his disciples and baptizing. (v.22, v.25)

This may be the only time in the NT we see Jesus baptizing. Am I right?

It's interesting to think about how John the Evangelist might be putting words in John the Baptist's mouth. Your point shows that the Bible is a mix of God's inspiration and human writing. It's pretty cool that God uses people to share His message.

And you made a great observation about Jesus and baptism! Check out John 4:2, though. It says that it was actually Jesus' disciples doing the baptizing

 

[paradox3]

Perhaps Jesus is growing into his role as leader by John 4:2.

It definitely reads like he was baptizing in John 3. Did he figure out how to delegate by the next chapter of the story?

 

[GordW]

Perhaps Jesus is growing into his role as leader by John 4:2.

It definitely reads like he was baptizing in John 3. Did he figure out how to delegate by the next chapter of the story?

IF we follow the line that Jesus was originally a disciple of John (thought I am not sure that logic fits well with the Gosepl of John, maybe better with the Synoptics) then it would make sense that Jesus is participating in JtB's ministry of baptism at one point in time.

 

[Waterfall]

I'm trying to clarify the bridegroom and the bride thing.
So is the church the bride and Jesus is the bridegroom and John is a friend of the bridegroom? Is that right?
And the bridegroom is now baptizing?
Is there a reason that this same terminology is used at the wedding at Cana too yet we don't know who's getting married?
Are the stories related? Is the wedding at Cana a parable or a real event? Is there a reason we don't know who's getting married at Cana?
Or am I off base here?

 

[unsafe]

So is the church the bride and Jesus is the bridegroom

Yes ---you have that right -----and John is the friend who prepared the way for the bridegroom ---

And the bridegroom is now baptizing?

I really don't think the bridegroom is baptising here -----and the next chapter clears that up as was pointed out in the post today by Jabius-----

The wedding in Cana was a real wedding ---no info given on who got married -----and the wedding itself was not the main focus ---Jesus performing His first Miracle of turning water into wine for the wedding was the main Focus ====

 

[Jaebius]

Perhaps Jesus is growing into his role as leader by John 4:2.

It definitely reads like he was baptizing in John 3. Did he figure out how to delegate by the next chapter of the story?

In John 4, we see a great example of how Jesus doesn't hold onto power for himself. He shows us how to share responsibilities and guide others, which is a lesson for leaders like me.

It's classic Jesus to lead with humility, letting his disciples step up. It really makes me think about how I can grow in trusting others in my own life. This is such a meaningful passage, I appreciate you bringing it up

 

[paradox3]

John 4:1-3

Bible Gateway passage: John 4:1-3 - New English Translation

Departure From Judea - Now when Jesus knew that the Pharisees had heard that he was winning and baptizing more disciples than John (although Jesus himself was not baptizing, but his disciples were), he left Judea and set out once more for Galilee.

www.biblegateway.com

Today's selection is a short text which we have already started to discuss.

There is a hint here of future trouble with the Pharisees. Do they really care that Jesus is attracting more attention than John? Or are they more concerned about the sheer size of His following?

According to this Gospel writer, Jesus wants to avoid confrontation with the Pharisees at the beginning of His ministry.

 

[paradox3]

In John 4, we see a great example of how Jesus doesn't hold onto power for himself.

I don't necessarily see it as a sharing of power. It seems more like the very beginning of a faith tradition.

It's awesome to consider that the ritual of baptism has been passed down to us through so many generations.

 

[Jaebius]

John 4:1-3

Bible Gateway passage: John 4:1-3 - New English Translation

Departure From Judea - Now when Jesus knew that the Pharisees had heard that he was winning and baptizing more disciples than John (although Jesus himself was not baptizing, but his disciples were), he left Judea and set out once more for Galilee.

www.biblegateway.com

Today's selection is a short text which we have already started to discuss.

There is a hint here of future trouble with the Pharisees. Do they really care that Jesus is attracting more attention than John? Or are they more concerned about the sheer size of His following?

According to this Gospel writer, Jesus wants to avoid confrontation with the Pharisees at the beginning of His ministry.

Jesus knew when to confront others and when to hold back. That’s a good lesson for us too. It’s all about figuring out the right time to make our move.

I really believe that God wants me to be responsible with what I do and how I spend my time. Jesus shows this so well here. Even with everything going on with the Pharisees, he still focuses on sharing the Good News with those who need it.

This passage encourages us to think about our own lives. Sometimes we confuse being bold with being wise

 

[Jaebius]

I don't necessarily see it as a sharing of power. It seems more like the very beginning of a faith tradition.

It's awesome to consider that the ritual of baptism has been passed down to us through so many generations.

Thank you for sharing this wonderful reflection! I get excited about baptism's relational and symbolic depth. I love how you see it as the seed of a faith tradition. Baptism's a sacred reminder of God's grace working through generations, connecting us to Christ.

I also see a dynamic in John 4. It shows how Jesus empowers his disciples to take part in the unfolding of God's kingdom. Baptism has always been a communal act. It's amazing that we're woven into this tapestry

 

[unsafe]

We see in this Chapter 4:1-3 ----that Jesus who is 100% divine is omniscient and He knew the Pharisees would be confronting Him soon about gaining more followers -----The Pharisees did really care about Jesus gaining more followers as it would be a threat to them maintaining their Status of authority and influence within the Jewish Religion -----

As has been pointed out by paradox3 Jesus did not at that time want to be confronted by the Pharisees ----
my words here -------I don't think it was because Jesus didn't like confrontation or was in fear of the confrontation ---I think it was more that the time was not right for the Confrontation ----Jesus followed His Fathers instructions not His own --

This is important for God's children to get here as there is a right time for things to happen and God knows the right time we don't ----if we act to quickly or to soon it will not turn out right or good for us --we are to wait for God's direction and prompting to act -----this is called forbearance in scripture and believe me it takes much practice to accomplished this feat --- We are a lot that doesn't like to wait for God's timing ----we want to act when we want to act ---and reap unpleasant consequences most times -----

AI _____-In a biblical context, forbearance signifies patience, self-control, and restraint, particularly in the face of provocation or delay

John's water baptism was for the Jewish people who had their hardened hearts change to receptive hearts by the Father and repented ---that is they had a mind change to turn away from their sins---- it was a symbolic act of cleansing and preparing them for the coming of their Messiah who would Baptise them with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the future ---



Religions argue over Water baptism today -----many saying it takes away your sins and saves you -----that the water has power and when you come up from the water your cleansed and holy as your doing what Jesus did when He was baptised by John ---there is no power in water -----

This is False Doctrine at it's best here Folks ------

And some Religions won't allow you to be a member of their Church until you get baptised in their dunking tanks ----which to me is ridiculous ----

Religions will take Scripture and twist it to suit their own agenda -----the Anti Christ is alive and well ----in my view -----

Jesus chastised the Religion of the day Judaism for adding their own rules and traditions that were not from God ------Adding things to suit their own agenda ----

Water Baptism remains a symbolic jester today as it was when John baptised ---it is a External symbol of an Internal Reality that you already have and you are professing your Faith in that Reality -----

 

[Mendalla]

John 4:1-3

Bible Gateway passage: John 4:1-3 - New English Translation

Departure From Judea - Now when Jesus knew that the Pharisees had heard that he was winning and baptizing more disciples than John (although Jesus himself was not baptizing, but his disciples were), he left Judea and set out once more for Galilee.

www.biblegateway.com

Today's selection is a short text which we have already started to discuss.

There is a hint here of future trouble with the Pharisees. Do they really care that Jesus is attracting more attention than John? Or are they more concerned about the sheer size of His following?

According to this Gospel writer, Jesus wants to avoid confrontation with the Pharisees at the beginning of His ministry.

From a modern team-oriented business point of view, the fact that he has his team baptizing thereby allowing him to grow faster than John, who was mostly working alone, makes an interesting case study. Apparently Jesus read The Ideal Team Player (business text we use at work) 2000 years before it was written.

 

[paradox3]

@Mendalla In the era of my management career, we had The One Minute Manager. Catching people doing something right was the idea.

There was also Motivational Dynamics and Situational Leadership but I don't remember any particular text for either..

Dating myself just a little, right?

 

[paradox3]

John 4: 4-26

Bible Gateway passage: John 4:4-26 - New English Translation

Conversation With a Samaritan Woman - But he had to pass through Samaria. Now he came to a Samaritan town called Sychar, near the plot of land that Jacob had given to his son Joseph. Jacob’s well was there, so Jesus, since he was tired from the journey, sat right down beside the well. It was...

www.biblegateway.com

Today's text gives us an inclusive Jesus who interacts with a Samaritan woman at Jacob's well.

She recognizes him as a Prophet when he states that she has had five husbands. And the one she is living with now is not her husband.

Jesus refers to himself as living water and declares to her that he is the Messiah. The time is coming (and is now here) says Jesus, when true worshippers will worship God in truth and spirit.

 

[paradox3]

The Samaritan woman in this story is often assumed to be an outcast because she is alone at the well. But the story is actually silent on whether or not others are present.

She is often considered to be a sinner or an adulteress because of the five husbands. But the story doesn't specify this either.