The Joys of John
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unsafe
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To answer this Question
Note ----John"s Gospel describes who Jesus is and the start up of His Ministry -----so this turning over the tables is done here at the beginning of Jesus Ministry which fits with John's narrative ---and Note here that the officials confront Jesus right after He does this ---John 2:18 and then there is the whip here which is different from the other turnover ------
In Matthew --Mark and Luke the turnover is at the end of His Ministry -----and Note here the officials don't confront Jesus about the turnover of the tables until later ------in Matthew 21 verse 12 is where he drives out the money changers and the officials don't confront Jesus till
Verse 23 ----after the fig tree incident ----
So there are 2 separate chearing of the table incidents ----
It happened Twice -----once at the Beginning of His Ministry and once at the end of His Ministry ---
Note ----John"s Gospel describes who Jesus is and the start up of His Ministry -----so this turning over the tables is done here at the beginning of Jesus Ministry which fits with John's narrative ---and Note here that the officials confront Jesus right after He does this ---John 2:18 and then there is the whip here which is different from the other turnover ------
In Matthew --Mark and Luke the turnover is at the end of His Ministry -----and Note here the officials don't confront Jesus about the turnover of the tables until later ------in Matthew 21 verse 12 is where he drives out the money changers and the officials don't confront Jesus till
Verse 23 ----after the fig tree incident ----
The Authority of Jesus Questioned
23 Jesus entered the temple courts, and, while he was teaching, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to him. “By what authority are you doing these things?” they asked. “And who gave you this authority?”So there are 2 separate chearing of the table incidents ----
GordW
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This only works if you what/need to presume that there is only one story and that there are no contradictions in the text. It is far more logical, imo, to say that there is ONE clearing of the temple and that for their own reasons the synoptics put it in a different place than John. FOr starters, in the Synoptics we are only told of JEsus heading to Jerusalem once (the synoptics can easily be read as the whole ministry of JEsus happens in one year) while John, iirc, talks about three Passovers which suggests three trips to Jerusalem (it is from here we get the traditional understanding that Jesus had a 3 year ministry). If Jesus only goes to JErusalem once there can only be one clearing of the temple.
If one sets aside the need for univocality and to make the different ways of telling the story jive with each other then different answers become possible.
unsafe
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Jesus here is showing us that there is Righteous Anger and Righteous Judgment that is OK for a Child of God to exercise ---
Righteous anger and Righteous Judgment will led to the right result and will keep sin at bay
We Christians get caught up on misinterpreting scripture and say we are not to get angry or judge others ----and that is not what the real message of the Scripture is ---
Born Again people are not to Judge unbelievers as they are living rightly as to this world's standards ----and do not know God's ways
But Born Again people have every right to Judge a Brother or Sister in Christ who they see going down the wrong path or who are continually living like they belong to this world still ---there is protocol for in scripture for Believers dealing with this issue -----Christians are to look out for one another as there is an enemy loose who can cause one to backslid and the more Mature brother or Sister is to help keep God's children in the fold ----
Righteous anger and Righteous Judgment will led to the right result and will keep sin at bay
We Christians get caught up on misinterpreting scripture and say we are not to get angry or judge others ----and that is not what the real message of the Scripture is ---
Born Again people are not to Judge unbelievers as they are living rightly as to this world's standards ----and do not know God's ways
But Born Again people have every right to Judge a Brother or Sister in Christ who they see going down the wrong path or who are continually living like they belong to this world still ---there is protocol for in scripture for Believers dealing with this issue -----Christians are to look out for one another as there is an enemy loose who can cause one to backslid and the more Mature brother or Sister is to help keep God's children in the fold ----
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Well GordW you are welcome to your view ---but I stick with my 2
Maybe this will help you to see there are 2 clearings of the tables
Contradictions: When Did Jesus Cleanse the Temple?
John states that Jesus cleansed the temple early in His ministry, but the other Gospels place the temple-cleansing near the end of His ministry. Tim Chaffey, AiG–U.S. explains these accounts.
answersingenesis.org
Contradictions: When Did Jesus Cleanse the Temple?
John states that Jesus cleansed the temple early in His ministry, but the other Gospels place the temple-cleansing near the end of His ministry. Tim Chaffey, AiG–U.S. explains these accounts.
answersingenesis.org
When Did Jesus Cleanse the Temple?
by Dr. Tim Chaffey on August 16, 2011Featured in Demolishing Supposed Bible Contradictions: Volume 2
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The Gospel of John states that Jesus cleansed the temple early in His ministry, but the other Gospels place the temple-cleansing near the end of His ministry. Who is right?
The “Problem”
The second chapter of John explains that during the Passover, Jesus went to the temple in Jerusalem, made a whip of cords, and drove out the money changers who were doing business there. He also poured out the money and turned over the tables (John 2:13–15). Jesus said to those who sold doves, “Take these things away! Do not make My Father’s house a house of merchandise!” (John 2:16).The Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) also tell of Jesus entering the temple, driving out those who bought and sold, overturning their tables, and telling the crowd that they had turned the temple into a “den of thieves” (Matthew 21:12–13; Mark 11:15–17; Luke 19:45–46).
Some Christians believe these accounts describe the same event, but there is a problem. John describes the cleansing of the temple as occurring during the first Passover (of three) mentioned in his Gospel. Meanwhile, Matthew, Mark, and Luke all describe the temple-cleansing as taking place just days before Christ’s Crucifixion. Is this a contradiction and if so, who is right?
The Solution
Students of the Bible need to realize that similarity does not necessarily equal same-ness. In other words, just because two accounts are similar, it does not mean they refer to the same thing. In this case, the solution is actually quite simple. Jesus cleansed the temple on at least two occasions. The first time was near the beginning of His ministry, as described in John. The final time was just prior to His death, as described in the Synoptics.
The critic might protest and suggest this is simply an ad hoc answer (i.e., a solution concocted just to address the objection), but the biblical accounts support this. Furthermore, the biblical authors should be given the benefit of the doubt. So rather than automatically crying “Contradiction!” we should see if a solution can be found.
The most obvious difference has already been explained. These events took place at different points of Christ’s ministry.
When you look closely at these accounts other differences can be found. In John, Jesus was immediately confronted by temple officials who asked, “What sign do You show to us, since You do these things?” John revealed that the Lord responded by pointing to His future Resurrection: “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up” (John 2:19; 2:22). There is no mention of this confrontation or Christ’s prophecy in Matthew, Mark, or Luke.
In contrast to this, the Synoptics record that following the second cleansing, Jesus began to teach those who were in the temple and heal the blind and lame that came to Him.
John wrote that Jesus made a whip of cords and then drove out the money changers. The Synoptics do not mention a whip at all.
The words that Jesus spoke while cleansing the temple are different. As cited above regarding the first temple-cleansing, the Lord stated, “Take these things away! Do not make My Father’s house a house of merchandise!” (John 2:16).
However, during the second cleansing Jesus said, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you have made it a ‘den of thieves’” (Matthew 21:13; Mark 11:17; Luke 19:46). While the message was similar, the words Jesus used to convey His message were different.
Would Jesus Really Do This Twice?
Some may wonder at the plausibility of Jesus cleansing the temple on two occasions, but there is no reason to doubt that He would do this. Remember, Jesus often confronted the religious leaders and challenged their hypocrisy. In this case, the money changers were guilty of turning worship into a matter of convenience while stealing from the people by charging exorbitant prices for substandard sacrificial animals. Instead of following God’s command to offer pure, spotless lambs from their own flocks at Passover (Exodus 12:5), many Jews were guilty of commercializing this process. They simply traveled to Jerusalem and purchased animals from the market at the temple. This is not what the Lord commanded.Jesus challenged these ungodly practices and urged the people to obey God rather than convenience. In doing so, He also angered Caiaphas, the high priest, whose family was in charge of the money changing in the temple. Not only did the Lord’s actions challenge the authority of Caiaphas, they also hurt his family’s financial holdings since they had grown rich from the sale of sacrificial animals.1
Just as the Old Testament revealed that God was zealous for true worship from His people, Jesus demonstrated that obedience is better than sacrifice. Since Annas and Caiaphas refused to shape up following the first temple-cleansing in John 2, Jesus took another opportunity to remind the people of the importance of true worship.
Conclusion
The solution to this supposed Bible contradiction is rather straightforward. Jesus cleansed the temple on at least two occasions: once at the beginning and again at the end of His earthly ministry. This should not surprise us since God repeatedly stressed in His Word that it is more important to obey Him than it is to perform empty rituals, especially when those rituals are done for convenience or personal gain.then this says 2 temple clearings
jesus - One Temple cleansing or Two?
Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange
https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com › questions › o...
Jul 24, 2020 — There were two Temple cleansing, the first one at the beginning of his ministry 30 C.E. and the second towards the last months of his ministry ...
paradox3
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From the study guide we used at church for John:
"Like many of John's narrative choices, the placement of this event is best understood not chronologically, but symbolically. John uses this incident to illustrate that Jesus's ministry placed him in opposition to the established order from the very beginning."
(The United Church of Christ: Listen Up! Series)
"Like many of John's narrative choices, the placement of this event is best understood not chronologically, but symbolically. John uses this incident to illustrate that Jesus's ministry placed him in opposition to the established order from the very beginning."
(The United Church of Christ: Listen Up! Series)
unsafe
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I agree with this statement ----and to add to that ----it challenges the view most people have of this Nice Jesus who only like to see His peaceful -loving and kind never angry nature ---- Jesus was showing He was the Lion and the Lamb all in one -here ----He called a Spade a Spade -He spoke directly and plainly with no sugarcoating ----He Criticized --- He Judged and He showed angry ----even if it was seen as blunt or impolite to others ---He did it Rightfully and Righteously ----
unsafe
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As far as how many times the tables were overturned in the Temple yard ---is really not the important part of the scripture for sure ---Anyone today who has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is God's Temple and we must try and not drfile His Temple by engaging in sin ---
paradox3
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John 2:18-25
www.biblegateway.com
The Jewish leaders ask Jesus for a sign. He challenges them to tear down the Temple and says he will raise it in three days.
But he was talking about his body. The disciples will remember this after His death and resurrection.
At the Passover feast, many people believed in Jesus's name because of the signs he was doing. But Jesus did not entrust himself to them because he knew all people. He knew what was in man.
Bible Gateway passage: John 2:18-25 - New English Translation
So then the Jewish leaders responded, “What sign can you show us, since you are doing these things?” Jesus replied, “Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up again.” Then the Jewish leaders said to him, “This temple has been under construction for forty-six years, and are you...
But he was talking about his body. The disciples will remember this after His death and resurrection.
At the Passover feast, many people believed in Jesus's name because of the signs he was doing. But Jesus did not entrust himself to them because he knew all people. He knew what was in man.
Love how John doesn't just use miracles as a show. When Jesus turned water into wine at Cana, he revealed God's joy.
That one sign was enough to make the disciples believe. I have to wonder what signs God puts in my life to get me to believe more. Often, they're small things: a stranger being nice, a prayer getting answered.
It reminds me that faith doesn't need a ton of proof. Just one moment of grace can turn doubt into trust
paradox3
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He sure does. It's so interesting that John omits all the parables and the sermon on the Mount/ Plain from his gospel.I must say, rebuilding that temple in 3 days would have been a hell of a sign given its history, though. But, yeah, seems like he was speaking figuratively/metaphorically. John likes that kind of stuff.
Believe that God has chosen means of grace through which he gives and strengthens faith - those means being Sacraments, and the Word of God. At the same time, I don't feel the Word of God has to be just sitting around reading the Bible. I feel anytime someone acts in a Christlike way, the Word of God is revealed
paradox3
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Well, sure. I happen to agree with you about these things. But they are belief statements.
Interesting that Jesus is not very impressed by belief so far in John's Gospel.
Of course this changes by John 3:16.
Yes, of course, I'm a Pastor. I'm happy you agree about them.
Great point! John's Gospel is really interesting. It’s all about friendship. At the start, Jesus seems to care less about just believing and more about something deeper: a faith that really transforms you and brings you closer to God’s love.By John 3:16, this message really comes through. It’s about accepting and reacting to God's love. That’s the belief Jesus is all about. It’s active, vibrant, and built on trust