The Joys of John

[GordW]

We see here that Jesus believed in the resurrection of the dead. Interesting to consider that the Pharisees had the same belief.

It has been suggested that Jesus might have been most closely aligned with the Pharisaic party in the attempt to reform Judaism at the time. Not sure what the current scholarship consensus is on that point. Now in 1st Century Judaism (and in the early Christian church) a belief in resurrection was a belief in the general resurrection at the end of time, not a "die and go to heaven" belief like you would generally find in modern Christian circles. This would I think be what Jesus believed and is certainly what Paul believed if 1 Corinthians 15 is any guide.

 

[paradox3]

And it must have been hard for Jesus to ---as He had to duck and weave His life at times to avoid them -----

Yes lots of animosity there.

Do you believe the Pharisees were being influenced by Satanic forces to want to kill Jesus ?---

No I have never considered Satanic forces to be affecting the Pharisees. I think this thread is the first time I have seen the idea expressed.

 

[Jaebius]

Yes lots of animosity there.


No I have never considered Satanic forces to be affecting the Pharisees. I think this thread is the first time I have seen the idea expressed.

The Pharisees were certainly a complex group. In the Gospels, we see many times when their words and actions align with opposition to Jesus' ministry.

Here's the Gospel's beauty: Jesus came to bring light into darkness, to free us from both sin and spiritual oppression. His love's more powerful than any evil force

 

[unsafe]

No I have never considered Satanic forces to be affecting the Pharisees. I think this thread is the first time I have seen the idea expressed.

I just ask because ---Later Jesus calls the Pharisees ----The children of your Father the devil

The Jewish leaders opposed Jesus teachings ----they rejected Jesus's true source of power which came from the Father ----they attributed His miracles to Beelzebul -----

So they were definitely influenced by Satan ------if you look at all the schemes they conjured up to trick Jesus all that comes from Satan ----they were deceptive --crafty and full of Fear and jealousy ---

Remember ---we fight not against flesh and Blood but against principalities and rulers of darkness ----

Satan puts thoughts in our mind to keep us from God ------that is Satan's job ---and he had a hay day with the Pharisees i say ----they were False Teachers spreading False Doctrine and trying to keeping the gospel from being preached

Satan had high stakes in this Spiritual Battle with Jesus ----Satan took away God's eternal life and brought in the curse for man kind in the Garden ----Satan's domain Hell was in place ---sin brought in the 2nd death ----Now Jesus is here to reclaim God's Blessings and bring back eternal life ----and Satan knows that and doesn't want Jesus to succeed in His Mission --

Satan will use who he has to defeat Jesus -----and the Pharisees are a perfect target -----but Jesus knows His enemy and how he works ----and outsmarts him ---Jesus wins

AI

Satan's Agents:
The Pharisees, by their opposition to Jesus, may have been acting as agents of Satan, leading people away from the true faith.

The claim that the Pharisees were influenced by Satan is supported by biblical passages where they attribute Jesus' miracles to Beelzebul, another name for Satan. These accusations suggest a rejection of Jesus' true source of power and an opposition to his teachings.

I say ----There is a real good chance that the Pharisees were very influenced by Satan to kills Jesus before He got to the Cross ---Satan had a lot to loose --

 

[Jaebius]

It has been suggested that Jesus might have been most closely aligned with the Pharisaic party in the attempt to reform Judaism at the time. Not sure what the current scholarship consensus is on that point. Now in 1st Century Judaism (and in the early Christian church) a belief in resurrection was a belief in the general resurrection at the end of time, not a "die and go to heaven" belief like you would generally find in modern Christian circles. This would I think be what Jesus believed and is certainly what Paul believed if 1 Corinthians 15 is any guide.

It’s interesting to see how Jesus agreed with the Pharisees on the resurrection while urging them to deepen their faith. It reminds us that change is about transformation.

When it comes to the resurrection, Paul has some great insights in 1 Corinthians 15. He describes this idea of a collective resurrection where death is defeated and we’re raised to a new life. This isn’t just a future event; it affects how we live right now. The resurrection is about renewing all creation, the victory of God’s kingdom, and restoring peace.

It’s easy to forget this in today’s Christian conversations. We really need to hold onto this vision of resurrection and live out that hope

 

[paradox3]

John 5:31-47

Bible Gateway passage: John 5:31-47 - New English Translation

More Testimony About Jesus - “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. There is another who testifies about me, and I know the testimony he testifies about me is true. You have sent to John, and he has testified to the truth. (I do not accept human testimony, but I say this so that...

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Jesus continues his testimony about Himself to the Jewish leaders.

It will not be Jesus who accuses them but Moses. Moses wrote about Him, claims Jesus.

 

[paradox3]

The gospel writer provides a clear link between the Torah and Jesus.

Were these the authentic words of Jesus, do you think? Or was the NT writer "stretching" to find the connection with the Hebrew Scriptures?

 

[unsafe]

So we see in these verses that Jesus can't witness about himself ----that is-- that --He is the Messiah ----there had to be independent witnesses to his true identity ----for others to believe

The same is for us --if someone claims that they have done the impossible ----others will most likely be skeptical of their claim ---until they see physical evidence of what the person is claiming they accomplished ----or others witness to have seen the person doing the impossible thing -----

So He gives testimony about John the Baptise

So Jesus gives the Jewish leaders John the Baptise name ---as they knew him ----he was a witness to the truth and a lamp that was always burning to show the way --and the Jewish leaders delighted in it for a time ----

Testimony of all His works ----
the miracles He has preformed bear witness to His Father

Testimony of His Father

The Father testified to the statue of Jesus being the Son in the Old Testament Prophecies and also testified at Jesus Baptism from John the Baptise ---adding this myself --as this is what God the Father said at Jesus'Baptism -----this is My Son of whom I am well please ----

These Jewish leaders know of the word of God but they do not have the Word in their Hearts and mind so they really have not kept the First Command ---Agape God with all your Heart --soul and mind ---so They Know OF God ----BUT --They Do Not Know God Personally ---They haven't seen His Form nor have they heard His voice ---so they only know the Logos Word and have no understanding of the Spiritual Rhema Word ----

This is showing so Plainly that many who claim to be Christians are Not as they think as long as they Know and believe there IS A God that they are safe ----and these scriptures are saying different ---

Testimony of the Scriptures ----

The Jewish leaders valued the Logos word ---and thought that their eternal life lay in studying and memorizing the Word ----then they find arguments in the Word to suit their own agenda

The Old Testament Scriptures actually testify about Jesus ---God's Son coming in the Future -

The Jewish leaders only had Human Faith and this shows because If they had truly believed the Scriptures and trusted in God the Father ----they would have had God's faith inbirthed in them and would have believed and understood that the Messiah was coming and from what they witnessed from Jesus' performance would have showed them that Jesus was the Messiah prophesied about in their Scriptures ----

They Didn't Believe cause their minds and hearts were closed to grasp any Spiritual understanding ---they were concerned about Man's glory not Glorifying God ----there is no love for God in them ---the are to busy focusing on Moses and hoping that through him their Salvation will come ====but if they believed and relied on the Scriptures written by Moses they would have believe in Jesus as Moses wrote about Jesus ---

Their unbelief comes from them not accepting the Father's Drawing on their hearts who is the only one who can change our hardened hearts to a soft heart that actually receives the message of the Gospel that inbirths the right Faith in us to Believe what the Word says -----

This is the same for us today -----

 

[paradox3]

John 6:1-14

Bible Gateway passage: John 6:1-14 - New English Translation

The Feeding of the Five Thousand - After this Jesus went away to the other side of the Sea of Galilee (also called the Sea of Tiberias). A large crowd was following him because they were observing the miraculous signs he was performing on the sick. So Jesus went on up the mountainside and sat...

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Crowds of people follow Jesus because of the miraculous healings he has been performing. He retreats with the disciples to the mountainside but they pursue him there, too.

Jesus wants to make sure the people have something to eat. He has them sit down and the men are 5000 in number.

A boy has two loaves and five fishes. Jesus takes the food, gives thanks and distributes it. When everyone is satisfied, Jesus tells the disciples to gather up the broken pieces so nothing is wasted. Twelve baskets are filled.

The people say, "This is surely the Prophet who is to come into the world " (v.14)

 

[paradox3]

Interesting that different versions of this story appear in all the Gospels. There is a great deal of symbolism and metaphor to be found if we look for it.

Or we can take the story as John probably intends it. Another miraculous sign of Jesus!

 

[Jaebius]

Interesting that different versions of this story appear in all the Gospels. There is a great deal of symbolism and metaphor to be found if we look for it.

Or we can take the story as John probably intends it. Another miraculous sign of Jesus!

I really like the meaning behind this story. It shows how God provides for us, which is a great message for everyone.

When I read the Gospel accounts of this event, I notice how inclusive the miracle is. Jesus feeds the crowd, taking care of their hunger in both body and spirit. It gives a little peek into the Kingdom.

We should share Christ's love with those around us by being kind. This story invites us to get involved in the amazing work Jesus is still doing

 

[paradox3]

Thanks @Jaebius for one possible interpretations of the story.

I like that Jesus was concerned about the crowd being fed. He had withdrawn to the mountaintop but responded to the people when they continued to pursue him.

At this point Jesus knows he has been given authority by the Father. And now he seems to accept responsibility along with the authority.

Or is he merely showing compassion to the crowd?

I don't read this miracle as showmanship. Which is another possibility here, of course.

 

[Jaebius]

Thanks @Jaebius for one possible interpretations of the story.

I like that Jesus was concerned about the crowd being fed. He had withdrawn to the mountaintop but responded to the people when they continued to pursue him.

At this point Jesus knows he has been given authority by the Father. And now he seems to accept responsibility along with the authority.

Or is he merely showing compassion to the crowd?

I don't read this miracle as showmanship. Which is another possibility here, of course.

Jesus' actions are pretty deep. It's interesting how his authority and compassion work together.

This miracle really gives us a glimpse of God’s heart. The crowd is chasing after Jesus because they want to be close. When he fed them, it's more than just about food; it's a peek into the kindness of God.

He connects what seem to be opposites. His authority shows love, and his compassion comes with a sense of duty. It all fits together.

In ministry, I think about how I can reflect this. Jesus wants us to show God's love in everything I do. It’s a great calling

 

[GordW]

The Old Testament Scriptures actually testify about Jesus ---God's Son coming in the Future -

When reinterpreted (one person I have seen calls it renegotiating the text) from a Christian mindset/experience they do.

 

[unsafe]

These Chapter verses have a Spiritual lesson for us

The feeding of the 5,000 shows us God Will sufficiently supply us with the provisions we need when we put our full trust in Him -----

Did the Disciples understand this -----not so much ----Jesus Tests philip here by asking him --

He said to Philip, “Where will we buy bread for these people to eat?”

Philip answered, “Two hundred denarii (200 days’ wages) worth of bread is not enough for each one to receive even a little.

So did Philip who has already witnessed Jesus performing Miracles ---trust that Jesus could do the impossible ----Multiply much from little ---Don't think so ----Philip's Spiritual insight was was veiled ----He was calculating with his human intelligence and relying on and trusting that to say this was an impossible task -----

We have to let Go of our Human Will and yield to God's Will ---God will never give us more than we can handle ---

Disciple Andrew now sees like a different story ---he brings to Jesus attention that there is a boy with a 2 piece fish dinner ---------but he is still skeptical about the situation ----
as he says --but ---what are these for so many people ----

So Andrew was acting on his Faith that was imparted to him by Jesus ----as God's Faith always requires a positive response ---bringing the fish dinner to Jesus attention was that positive response ----

but he is still skeptical in his trust about the situation ----as he says --but ---what are these for so many people --

Humor here --DR Phil says that when you say a positive thing and then say ---BUT ---you have just reversed the positive statement into a negative one----So Andrew has the right Faith but is not displaying his Spiritual insight in his trust that Jesus can use this small dinner to fed the crowd -----

This is important for us to get as so many Christians have their Spiritual insight veiled still ---they may Believe in Jesus but not Trust that what He says will come to pass in our lives ---

Our Problems are never to large or difficult for Jesus to guide us to a victorious end if we let the problem go and trust in Christ's guidance ----

We see Andrew obeying the command Jesus --gives him ----so obedience is key here --do what Jesus is telling you to do -------

Jesus then Gives thanks to His Father for this gift of a 2 piece fish dinner appearing --

This is important as we who are God's Children are to thank God for everything we have as we only have it because of Him ----

Through giving thanks ---the Miracle happens and all are fed and much is left over ----

Be thankful with the little and much will be provided -----God has boundless generosity to give out to His Children --

The boy who gave up his dinner shows us the importance of giving and trusting that God will multiply it ----the boy made a sacrifice to feed others -----and God fed 5,000 with his sacrificial giving and the boy had more that he could eat and probably took some home -----

 

[paradox3]

He connects what seem to be opposites. His authority shows love, and his compassion comes with a sense of duty. It all fits together.

Sounds quite a bit like human parents with their children, no?

 

[paradox3]

Now about the boy who gave up his dinner, as @unsafe put it.

Here are the references:

One of Jesus's disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter's brother, said to him, "Here is a boy who has five barley loaves and two fish."(v.9)
Then Jesus took the loaves. (v.11)
He then did the same with the fish. (v.11)

The passage is silent concerning how the boy felt about all this. Was he happy to have Jesus take his provisions? Honored, even?

Why did the boy have so much food to begin with? Are we to understand from the barley loaves that the barley harvest has just taken place?

 

[unsafe]

Are we to understand from the barley loaves that the barley harvest has just taken place?

AI
In John 6, the text doesn't explicitly state whether the barley loaves were freshly baked or not. The details focus on the boy who brought them, the fact that they were barley loaves, and the miracle of them being enough to feed a large crowd. While the text doesn't clarify their freshness, it implies they were readily available and sufficient to be used in the miracle.

Why did the boy have so much food to begin with

Maybe his mother pack it for him to take to hear Jesus preach

Was he happy to have Jesus take his provisions? Honored, even?

Well we can only surmise if he was or not happy about his anack ---but I can's see Jesus snatching the dinner away from the boy ---- I would say the boy was there to hear Jesus preach and maybe was approached about giving the dinner to Jesus ----and gave it up humbley ---

This holds a Spiritual message -in my view ----the boy had the right Faith and put that faith into action by giving up all he had and trusted Jesus ----

 

[BetteTheRed]

What is interesting to me about this story in John is that the feeding miracle appears twice, almost back to back, in Mark.

 

[paradox3]

Now I am wondering where the loaves and fishes came from in the other gospel accounts.

As for the boy in John, your ideas about him giving up all he had are certainly appealing @unsafe.

But maybe those big, burly disciples strong armed the poor kid.