The Gospel of Mark

[GordW]

Jesus used the Law and the Prophets as the psalms. The Psalms are part of the Writings. So clearly He knew some of the Writings, at least.

Law = first 5 books of the (present day) OT. Also known as the Torah.

Prophets is less clear to me. Ditto for the Writings.

While Wikipedia is not a great source, they are good for listings of base facts. This article lists what books are in the three sections of the Tanakh:
Hebrew Bible - Wikipedia

 

[paradox3]

Humanity was never meant to live eternity in Heaven. Our final resting place - for those of us God has selected - is the new Earth. Said Earth is the same as the Earth we now occupy - only it will exist in a fully-redeemed state.

How do you define Heaven?

 

[Jaebius]

How do you define Heaven?

In the way I just used the word above, I'm comfortable with, "the abode of God, the angels, and the spirits of the righteous after death; the place or state of existence of the blessed after the mortal life." - the definition of heaven

 

[unsafe]

paradox3 your quote ----- How exactly do you define "the word" or "the Word"? Is Jesus referring to His own teachings or something else?

unsafe says ----for me the Word is the Message from God to humankind ----Jesus was sent to Preach and teach the Gospel of Good New which is the way to Salvation -----

The Message has to do with Faith ----and how deeply rooted our Faith is ----If our Faith is not Grounded and Rooted in The Logos --Satan can come and steal the word from us ------


unsafe posting here --------the Greek word for Word here is Logos ----

3056 lógos (from 3004 /légō, "speaking to a conclusion") – a word, being the expression of a thought; a saying. 3056 /lógos ("word") is preeminently used of Christ (Jn 1:1), expressing the thoughts of the Father through the Spirit.

the doctrines of faith (see πίστις, 1 c. β.), the doctrine concerning the attainment through Christ of salvation in the kingdom of God: simply, Matthew 13:20-23; Mark 4:14-20

unsafe says
Faith ---is so important ---and it needs to be Grounded and Rooted in the truth of God's Logos ----Faith is our title deed ---it is our confidence that what God says in His Word will come to pass ----it produces -----Satan will always be after the True Christians Faith -----

unsafe posting here ---Greek Word for Faith -----read all

Strong's Greek: 4102. πίστις (pistis) -- faith, faithfulness

[4102 (pistis) in secular antiquity referred to a guarantee (warranty). In Scripture, faith is God's warranty, certifying that the revelation He inbirthed will come to pass (His way).

 

[paradox3]

In the way I just used the word above, I'm comfortable with, "the abode of God, the angels, and the spirits of the righteous after death; the place or state of existence of the blessed after the mortal life." - the definition of heaven

So you believe both in Heaven (an afterlife) and a new earth? I kind of had the idea folks generally went one way or the other in their theology.

 

[paradox3]

He seemed to know the Prophets as well as he did the Law and his preaching and teaching was very much in that tradition. That's why many who reject the idea of him being the Son of God (unitarians and Christian humanists mainly) treat him as a prophet instead.

Small "u" unitarians I can see treating Jesus as a prophet, mainly because they specifically reject the concept of a triune God & believe in the Oneness of God.

Jesus is recognized as a prophet in Islam.

Christian humanists, I would have thought, treat Jesus more as an ethical teacher. Humanists, by definition, disbelieve in God AFAIK.

 

[Mendalla]

Humanists, by definition, disbelieve in God AFAIK.

Secular humanists are non-believers by definition. Religious humanists can be (but aren't necessarily) believers though they obviously tend to less traditional theologies like process.

 

[paradox3]

Secular humanists are non-believers by definition. Religious humanists can be (but aren't necessarily) believers though they obviously tend to less traditional theologies like process.

By this definition, religious humanists might recognize Jesus as a prophet.

I have always had difficulty with the view of Jesus solely as an ethical teacher. I don't see how anyone can overlook the fact that He was a righteous Jew who believed in God. Granted I am one who sees belief and behavior as intertwined.

Jesus as prophet of God could represent a very nice middle ground. It doesn't say Jesus was the divine Son of God but it doesn't remove God from the equation either.

 

[Mendalla]

By this definition, religious humanists might recognize Jesus as a prophet.

I have always had difficulty with the view of Jesus solely as an ethical teacher. I don't see how anyone can overlook the fact that He was a righteous Jew who believed in God. Granted I am one who sees belief and behavior as intertwined.

Jesus as prophet of God could represent a very nice middle ground. It doesn't say Jesus was the divine Son of God but it doesn't remove God from the equation either.

I largely agree. Jesus' teaching can't be divorced from his rather intimate relationship with God, or at least with his faith a relationship with God. To just treat him as a purely secular teacher doesn't work IMHO and IME.

 

[Luce NDs]

Heaven is a state of mind and the organ of mental process ... if denied ... intelligence departs ...

Thus the divine state of absence and abstract! Few understand this because of elimination ... thus it goes ...

We really are a host of emotionally criminal in that regard ... criminal passions?

These are judged by authority as forgivable as a crime of deficiency ... mental breaks and gaps as define by plutarch's ... a form of oligarchy where only presence counts as source and destination are ignorant in present! Numbness is a gift ...

Like some great powers all we have to say is ... we don't know!

Is that reason or consequence of unreason?

 

[Jaebius]

So you believe both in Heaven (an afterlife) and a new earth? I kind of had the idea folks generally went one way or the other in their theology.

I believe that upon death, the righteous will go to Heaven to be with God. They'll return to Earth with Christ at the time of his Second Coming. Christ will then bring God's Kingdom into its fullness on Earth. The righteous will enjoy everlasting life on the new Earth.

 

[Waterfall]

Yes, we have groupings in the NT, too.

I am not completely sure I understand the meaning of God's kingdom in the NT . For many years I believed the kingdom of heaven referred to the afterlife. More recently I started to think it was a Utopian view of the possibilities God sees for this earth.

But our recent study of Matthew has me thinking perhaps Jesus meant a new earth & heaven to come after the final judgement.

So in answering the question of consistency between OT and NT, I have to say yes & no.
I believe that Jesus' views would have been consistent with his faith system. Yet he also offers us something new. . . renewal of the old at the very least. It's confusing.

Here is the reason Jesus gives for teaching in parables:
"The mystery of the kingdom of God has been granted to them but not to those who are outside." (New Testament)
In the old testament, "mystery" refers to Gods divine plans that are secret not because God wants his plans to be unknown , but because it takes a devine revelation to reveal the mystery. He reveals this only to the prophets for the sake of his covenated people.
Daniel 2:19 and 2:28
Amos 3:7
The mystery is revealed through Jesus. to those with open hearts.

 

[paradox3]

I believe that upon death, the righteous will go to Heaven to be with God. They'll return to Earth with Christ at the time of his Second Coming. Christ will then bring God's Kingdom into its fullness on Earth. The righteous will enjoy everlasting life on the new Earth.

Thank you for providing clarity about your faith perspective. Is this a common understanding in your denomination? I am not sure I have ever encountered it before but that might be me not paying enough attention.

 

[paradox3]

The mystery is revealed through Jesus. to those with open hearts.

Could be. I am more inclined to think the NT was written to demonstrate the fulfilling of OT prophecy. Especially Matthew's gospel.

 

[Jaebius]

Thank you for providing clarity about your faith perspective. Is this a common understanding in your denomination? I am not sure I have ever encountered it before but that might be me not paying enough attention.

No - in my denominations the common understanding is that the righteous go to live everlastingly in Heaven while the wicked burn everlastingly in Hell.

This I picked up at some point in seminary.

 

[paradox3]

No - in my denominations the common understanding is that the righteous go to live everlastingly in Heaven while the wicked burn everlastingly in Hell.

You basically believe this thought, right? With the addition of Jesus returning at some future point to establish a new earth here on our planet?

 

[Waterfall]

Could be. I am more inclined to think the NT was written to demonstrate the fulfilling of OT prophecy. Especially Matthew's gospel.

Could be except IMO Mathew seems to fail with some prophecies and this embellishes them and totally ignores the ones in the Old testament that dont fit with Jesus being the prophesied Messiah.

 

[paradox3]

Could be except IMO Mathew seems to fail with some prophecies and this embellishes them and totally ignores the ones in the Old testament that dont fit with Jesus being the prophesied Messiah.

Where would you say Matthew fails? Where does this gospel ignore OT prophecies?

Just seeking information Waterfall. Not trying to be difficult.

 

[Jaebius]

You basically believe this thought, right? With the addition of Jesus returning at some future point to establish a new earth here on our planet?

I do not.

I don't believe the righteous experience everlasting life in Heaven.

I lean toward believing that the unsaved do experience everlasting punishment in Hell - although I find the idea of annihilation intriguing.

 

[paradox3]

I do not.

I don't believe the righteous experience everlasting life in Heaven.

Okay, so they don't experience everlasting life in Heaven. Everlasting life begins in Heaven and continues on earth after the Second Coming. To me this seems like splitting hairs.