Ah yes.....but if one believes that Jesus
is the divine Messiah yet still a mortal(as some on WC2 do)....how would this power be given by Jesus?
The Gospel of Mark
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is the divine Messiah yet still a mortal(as some on WC2 do)....how would this power be given by Jesus?
blackbelt1961
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no they were not Given the power, they were given the Right to Use the Power in Jesus Name
Matt 18:19, ask the Father, Jesus said ,,,, in My Name
in today's standards its what you would call Power of Attorney, the apostles are the agents who have the right to call on the Right Hand of the Power, aka Jesus.
aka they are the pen
paradox3
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Sure looks to me like the disciples were given this power by Jesus.
Matthew 10:1 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
The Twelve Apostles
10 Then Jesus summoned his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to cure every disease and every sickness.
I guess you could argue the authority was delegated to them by Jesus . . .
Matthew 10:1 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
The Twelve Apostles
10 Then Jesus summoned his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to cure every disease and every sickness.
I guess you could argue the authority was delegated to them by Jesus . . .
paradox3
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Matthew 18:19 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
19 Again, truly I tell you, if two of you agree on earth about anything you ask, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.
Sorry, I don't see this bible verse supporting your position at all.
chansen
Had a point all along
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Ignorant answers for things not previously understood that are now mostly believed by gullible people, yes.
How is this any different than the average conversation you might overhear at Comicon?
paradox3
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Not sure what you are asking here, Waterfall. Please clarify.
paradox3
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What do they talk about at these conventions?
Agreed this conversation is getting a little muddled. Stay tuned for tomorrow. Satan is on the agenda.
How would a mortal Jesus give power to the disciples to heal other than teaching them? Or did Jesus transfer power from Himself to the disciples supernaturally because he is God? IYO?
paradox3
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If we accept the idea of a fully human and fully divine Jesus, it could be both.
blackbelt1961
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The verse says it will be done for you by my father, notice the
Father has the power we're given the authority To call on it
paradox3
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To me this seems like a very subtle distinction. Does it really make a difference when it comes to the disciples carrying out their mission?
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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It makes a difference in that they cannot take credit for the healings. They must humbly explain that it comes from the Father. It also means that there is really nothing special about them. Any person of faith could do the same.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
It does make a difference we need to understand who the ultimate Power & Authority is to keep us humble & compassionate, because we know all too well any power we think we have on our part corrupts, and feeds ego and pride.
chansen
Had a point all along
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My understanding is that the relative powers of certain superheroes and how they obtained them is a topic of discussion. Like your conversation about powers here.
blackbelt1961
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Amen
DaisyJane
I probably should be working.
I apologize for arriving late to the party. Life has been busy.
I tend to read all of these forms of "healing" as similar in that they are part of restoring the ostracized, for whatever reason, to community. People who were ill, disabled, mentally or spiritually tortured, or whatever, were often viewed as "unclean" by the Jewish (aka early Christian) culture of the time, and therefore segregated. By removing whatever caused them to be viewed as unclean they were returned to the embrace of community. I read most healing narratives, of any kind, with this view.
Knowing the plans of the Pharisees, Jesus got away from them. He went down to the sea with his missionaries. By now, these missionaries had become Christ's adherents who'd become increasingly significant.
The lakeshore was was a retreat for Christ. From there, he could at any time withdraw still farther.
Opposition to Jesus from the Pharisees had made him famous in a way they hadn't anticipated, and now a crowd gathered around Jesus from on all sides. There were people from Galilee, Judea, Jerusalem, Idumea, Perea and Phenicia.
There was hardly a person in all Palestine and in the surrounding countries that hadn't heard about Jesus. His fame was still spreading, and the people were flocking to him.
Because of the crowd, Jesus had to take precautions. He told his missionaries to have a boat ready, that he might use it, should necessity demand.
At the same time, Jesus' love urged him to heal many in the crowd as they pressed in upon him. And Jesus let in many cases the touching of his garment or of his person bring healing.
The word used here for sicknesses is "scourge." Diseases are God's scourges, inflicted by God or permitted by God for the purpose of drawing people nearer to God.
And one of the worst scourges was demon possession, and people who were demon-possessed were brought to Jesus and he healed them.
Christ wanted no praise from Satan though. He didn't want to be revealed at this time, didn't want to be made known by them as Christ.
Jesus wanted the people to accept his Word and come to know him as the Redeemer through his Gospel.
paradox3
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Agreed that the disciples cannot take personal credit for the healings. Where do you get any person of faith being able to do the same? I understand the story to be saying the disciples are chosen and granted authority by Jesus. Not that everyone is given this authority for healing.