The Gospel of Mark

[Mendalla]

Jesus is getting ready to make the Old Covenant of the Law obsolete

Then how do you explain the passage I quoted above from Matthew 5 (17-20)? The one about how he came to fulfill the Law and the prophets, not to abolish them?

 

[Jaebius]

Need it be a literal "wilderness", or could be a more psychological time of isolation and challenge within the bounds of "civilization"? I'm thinking of, for example, someone who gets cuts off from their usual family and social circles due to a move, life change, mental health challenge and must live in that isolation even though they are still living in a city/town.

I don't think it has to be a literal wilderness. I've been cut off from my usual family and social circles due to a move. I'm now living in a land with a different language and culture. It has a wilderness feeling to it.

 

[unsafe]

Mendalla -----your quote -----Then how do you explain the passage I quoted above from Matthew 5 (17-20)? The one about how he came to fulfill the Law and the prophets, not to abolish them?

unsafe says ----There was nothing wrong with the Law Mendalla ----the Laws were given by God so the Law was perfect -----The Israelites asked God to give them rules to go by and that said they would keep them ---so God gave them the 10 Commandments at their request -------The Israelites thought they were all that and they could keep this perfect law ----God gave the Law to show Israel their sin ---the Law brought a Heightened awareness of sin ----God then said If anyone kept the Law they would be Blessed and if the failed to keep the Law they would be under the Curse ---so there was a reward system in place ---do good get good ---do bad get bad ----So since No man could keep the Law the Curse was in Place all the time no one could be Blessed ----- Jesus came to fulfil the Law so He could eventually bring in the New Covenant of Grace which would eliminate the effects of the Law which was the Curse of sin and death and bring back the Blessings of God making the Old Covenant obsolete ------All Born Again Christians today are not under the Curse of the Law they are under the New Covenant of Grace and have the Blessings in place ------Non Born again people remain under the Curse of the Law which is sin and death today ------The Blessings and Curses of Deuteronomy 28 are still in place today ------The Law is still a moral compass its effect is gone for those who have Faith in Jesus and what He accomplished on the Cross

The law acted as a schoolmaster till the New Covenant was in place ------Hebrews 8:13-----New International Version
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.



unsafe says ------The Bible is all about God's Covenants Mendalla ---read here at link below

Chapter 26. The Covenants - Dispensational Truth - Study Resources

I. The Edenic Covenant.
Gen. 1:28-30; 2:15-17.

The "Adamic" Covenant.
Gen. 3:14-19.

II. The "Noahic" Covenant.
Gen. 8:20-9:17.

IV. The "Abrahamic" Covenant.
Gen. 12:1-3.

V. The "Mosaic" Covenant.

VI. The "Davidic" Covenant.
2 Sam. 7:4-17.

VII. The "Palestinian" Covenant.
Deu. 30:1-10.

VIII. The "New" Covenant.
Heb. 8:7-13.

 

[Ritafee]

But would the kind of social/psychological isolation I describe work as the "open space" or does there have to be a literal "wilderness" involved? I'm thinking there are circumstances where we can be in the "wilderness" without leaving our own homes or at least while still in an urban setting.

Examination of conscience ... happens 'within'.

 

[paradox3]

Examination of conscience ... happens 'within'.

Oh, I have never equated wilderness experience with examination of conscience. . . interesting thought.

 

[Mendalla]

Oh, I have never equated wilderness experience with examination of conscience. . . interesting thought.

I think it is, or can be, a part of it for sure. What the wilderness experience brings may not be the same for all persons though, or so I suspect.

 

[Jaebius]

I have a very good solution to your 'problem', unsafe. I propose that the entire forum put you on ignore, then we'll never be tempted to quote your posts. You're being a total idiot about this.

I think @unsafe posts in the way she often does so that she can avoid taking responsibility for the words later on. After all, she can always say, "unsafe didn't say that, it was from an article," or, "unsafe didn't say thst, it was a meme."

As I trust you agree Bette, @Mendalla's one of the best posters here. He's never posted anything with malicious intent.

 

[Ritafee]

God then said If anyone kept the Law they would be Blessed and if the failed to keep the Law they would be under the Curse ---so there was a reward system in place ---do good get good ---do bad get bad ----So since No man could keep the Law the Curse was in Place all the time no one could be Blessed ----- Jesus came to fulfil the Law so He could eventually bring in the New Covenant of Grace which would eliminate the effects of the Law which was the Curse of sin and death and bring back the Blessings of God making the Old Covenant obsolete ------All Born Again Christians today are not under the Curse of the Law they are under the New Covenant of Grace and have the Blessings in place ------Non Born again people remain under the Curse of the Law which is sin and death today ------

Seems to me that Jesus came to fulfill 'the Law' by demonstrating that it actually was possible for 'Man' to keep 'the Law'.Where in the Gospels do we find mention of Born Again Christians? Jesus set the example for us in His death --- "For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it" (Matthew 16:25).

 

[blackbelt1961]

Seems to me that Jesus came to fulfill 'the Law' by demonstrating that it actually was possible for 'Man' to keep 'the Law'.Where in the Gospels do we find mention of Born Again Christians? Jesus set the example for us in His death --- "For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it" (Matthew 16:25).

There's mention of born-again Believers regardless of whether they call themselves Christians or Messianic Jews or Jews for Jesus or just simply Believers in Christ.

 

[Ritafee]

There's mention of born-again Believers regardless of whether they call themselves Christians or Messianic Jews or Jews for Jesus or just simply Believers in Christ.

Nicodemus said to him ...
“How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?”
Jesus answered ...
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again. The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

The wind’s effects can be observed ... by their fruits shall you know them ... faith without works is dead ... etc.

 

[blackbelt1961]

Nicodemus said to him ...
“How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?”
Jesus answered ...
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again. The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

The wind’s effects can be observed ... by their fruits shall you know them ... faith without works is dead ... etc.

Which is reference to Born Again spiritual rebirth regeneration.

 

[paradox3]

Then how do you explain the passage I quoted above from Matthew 5 (17-20)? The one about how he came to fulfill the Law and the prophets, not to abolish them?

Let's take a look at it.

Matthew 5:17-20 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
The Law and the Prophets
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Footnotes:

1. Matthew 5:18 Gk one iota
2. Matthew 5:19 Or annuls

According to this gospel writer, the Law is still in effect. Since Matthew was writing primarily for a Jewish audience, this does not seem surprising. There is support in the epistles for the idea of replacing the Law but I am not seeing it yet in the gospels.

When we get to Luke we will see a similar (not identical) statement to Matthew's.

​

 

[paradox3]

Which is reference to Born Again spiritual rebirth regeneration.

May I remind you & others we already discussed the question of Being Born Again on the Matthew thread?

If there is still more to say about it, please create a new thread for this purpose.

The Nicodemus story is in John. We will get there eventually.

 

[paradox3]

Mark 2:23-28 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
Pronouncement about the Sabbath
23 One sabbath he was going through the grainfields; and as they made their way his disciples began to pluck heads of grain. 24 The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the sabbath?” 25 And he said to them, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need of food? 26 He entered the house of God, when Abiathar was high priest, and ate the bread of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and he gave some to his companions.” 27 Then he said to them, “The sabbath was made for humankind, and not humankind for the sabbath; 28 so the Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath.”

 

[paradox3]

Reflection Mark 2:23-28

Since we only have a few verses left in Mark 2, I decided to post the text rather than summarize it.

I wonder why Jesus was going through the grainfields on a sabbath. Would He not have been observing Sabbath? Sabbath observance is one of the ten commandments, after all. Maybe he and the disciples were just out for a stroll, taking a break from the work of teaching and healing. His disciples began to pluck the heads of grain . . . Jesus did not, it seems.

The Pharisees, of course, are critical.

Jesus' reply seems to meet the standard of reasonableness. David and his companions ate the bread of Presence which was lawful only for the priests to consume. Human need and hunger trumped the law in this case.

Jesus takes a similar stand on the sabbath. It is made for humankind. Humankind is not made for the sabbath. Is this because sabbath observance is a gift?

What does Jesus mean when He says the Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath? At the very least, it sounds like He is saying His interpretations of the Law are valid.

 

[paradox3]

According to this gospel writer, the Law is still in effect. Since Matthew was writing primarily for a Jewish audience, this does not seem surprising. There is support in the epistles for the idea of replacing the Law but I am not seeing it yet in the gospels.

Having made this statement, I am reminded that many believe the verses about new cloth and new wineskins (2:21-22) refer to the New Covenant.

Is it possible these verses refer to end times and the day of judgement?

 

[Luce NDs]

There's mention of born-again Believers regardless of whether they call themselves Christians or Messianic Jews or Jews for Jesus or just simply Believers in Christ.

Inde light of what astute stone can see as exposed ... thus the hard ones must be cracked ... let it shine thro' ...

There are some denser than others that Dan' sin delight ... for sake of learning from Eire ... blarney or scones? Halve baked ...

 

[Luce NDs]

To prove physical rebirth exists ... in essence ... a great myth is required to project out what we can't see in Tu ...

Tis an enigma ... a form of mystery coming in chitz and bits ... be patient ... as nature awakens to the unnatural naivete of "mon" ... destruction as the great pretender to creation from the Runes ...

It all has to fit somehow ... even if stuck well and seized at the conjuring ... creating chaos and explete ...

 

[paradox3]

Back to the question of the new cloth and the new wineskins. The Message has an interesting interpretation:

Mark 2:21-22 The Message (MSG)
21-22 He went on, “No one cuts up a fine silk scarf to patch old work clothes; you want fabrics that match. And you don’t put your wine in cracked bottles.”

This interpretation places the focus on not wasting what is new. For the sake of preserving the old.

This could still mean replacing the old covenant with the new. Or it could mean renewal of ancient Judaism with a less legalistic & outward expression than is present in the Pharisees.

 

[unsafe]

unsafe says
Just because we use a different Bible the Spiritual Message is the Same ------Jesus came to bring in a New Covenant of Grace to Save God's Creation who really screwed up ------the Gospels message Jesus was sent to give was about the Good News ----The Pharisees had hardened their hearts toward Jesus's message and who He was -----

------We can conjure up all kinds of interpretations ----but if you read the Text in context and rely on the only person who can give you the Real spiritual meaning of the scripture there will be no Confusion about what the scripture is says -----the scripture tells you right here what He is speaking about in the context of this piece of scripture -------His bringing in the New Covenant of Grace --------

Mark 2:20 (AMP)
20 But the days will come when the bridegroom is [forcefully] taken away from them, and they will fast at that time.


unsafe Posting here -----This is a 3min 56 second video on Mark 2 :21-22 pleas listen to it -------


WORD of Encouragement: Mark 2:21-22
4,967 views


FaceLikeTheSun
Published on Jan 3, 2016

Mark 2:21-22
21“No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment; otherwise the patch pulls away from it, the new from the old, and a worse tear results. 22“No one puts new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the wine will burst the skins, and the wine is lost and the skins as well; but one puts new wine into fresh wineskins.”