The Epicurean Dilemma (Paradox)

[unsafe]

And the Bible citations for that are?

Isaiah 1:22---uses the medaphor of Silver

New Living Translation
Once like pure silver, you have become like worthless slag. Once so pure, you are now like watered-down wine.

Once your Mirror was in Tack ---now it is cracked because of Sin and it distorts the Godly image you were born with ----

Read all for yourselves ---I just posted this

Emmaus Bible Study

app.emmaus.study

Broken Mirrors​

Human beings were made for a purpose! We were created to reflect the character of God in this world. We were created to be little mirrors for God to shine his face through us. When Adam and Eve sinned, that mirror shattered. Have you ever looked into a broken mirror? When a mirror breaks, the glass cracks not just once, but often many, many times. Can you still see your reflection in a broken mirror? Yes, you can, but it becomes very hard to see in between all the cracks! The same is true for humanity after the fall of man in the garden of Eden. When Adam and Eve sinned, the image of God in them, that is, the ability to see God’s character and nature on display in them, was broken and shattered. Today, while humans are still made in God’s image, that image is broken and people do not reflect God’s glory as they should, just like a shattered mirror does not reflect your image without cracks and breaks.

 

[Jaebius]

Well we were supposed to be made in God's image......although I wouldn't consider divine vengeance as divine justice either....
Job did not commit any crime to even deserve this test IMO.......Perhaps Chaos sometimes just runs its course and we are helpless to avoid it until we choose to recover from it?

There's a difference, Waterfalls, between saying God's just and saying we always grasp His justice.

Job encounters God. For me, the message's that God stays faithful and purposeful.

Sometimes life feels chaotic from where we're standing. Scripture presents God's Providence as the final power. Honestly, that's the reason I find hope in suffering

 

[Mendalla]

Isaiah 1:22---uses the medaphor of Silver

New Living Translation
Once like pure silver, you have become like worthless slag. Once so pure, you are now like watered-down wine.

Once your Mirror was in Tack ---now it is cracked because of Sin and it distorts the Godly image you were born with ----

Read all for yourselves ---I just posted this

Emmaus Bible Study

app.emmaus.study

Broken Mirrors​

Human beings were made for a purpose! We were created to reflect the character of God in this world. We were created to be little mirrors for God to shine his face through us. When Adam and Eve sinned, that mirror shattered. Have you ever looked into a broken mirror? When a mirror breaks, the glass cracks not just once, but often many, many times. Can you still see your reflection in a broken mirror? Yes, you can, but it becomes very hard to see in between all the cracks! The same is true for humanity after the fall of man in the garden of Eden. When Adam and Eve sinned, the image of God in them, that is, the ability to see God’s character and nature on display in them, was broken and shattered. Today, while humans are still made in God’s image, that image is broken and people do not reflect God’s glory as they should, just like a shattered mirror does not reflect your image without cracks and breaks.

Except Isaiah is not addressing humanity, he is addressing the kingdom of Judah and its rulers, as you can see if you read the entire chapter in context rather than prooftexting to find support for your position.

 

[GordW]

Isaiah 1:21 makes it clear that Isaiah is talking about the city. The opening of Isaiah talks about JUdah as a whole before focusing on the city (presumably Jerusalem). It is an interpretive choice to make verse 22 about individual people. I think it is a choice that is defensible but it is not the plain reading of the verse

 

[Mendalla]

Isaiah 1:21 makes it clear that Isaiah is talking about the city. The opening of Isaiah talks about JUdah as a whole before focusing on the city (presumably Jerusalem). It is an interpretive choice to make verse 22 about individual people. I think it is a choice that is defensible but it is not the plain reading of the verse

It certainly does not read that way if you read it in context.

 

[GordW]

Sometimes life feels chaotic from where we're standing. Scripture presents God's Providence as the final power. Honestly, that's the reason I find hope in suffering

I wonder...
are we meant to find hope in suffering or to have hope despite suffering, that our hope lies in the GOd who is there in our suffering and will be with us always to lead us to the other side.

 

[GordW]

It certainly does not read that way if you read it in context.

agreed, but I can find a line to make it work even if it is not where I would go. I can see thinking that the nation and city are made up of individuals and therefore if the whole has been changed so have the individual.
As I say, not what I would do with the passage. If it was aimed at any individuals it would be the leadership rather than the general populace.

I suspect most people in Biblical studies would not go the direction @unsafe went either.

 

[unsafe]

Except Isaiah is not addressing humanity,

Who makes up a Nation there Mendalla -----People --Humanity ----you can spin it any way you like ----But Sinful Humanity"s God Like Image is tainted by Sin and the Sin Nature -----Period

Isaish !

Woe to the sinful nation,
a people whose guilt is great,
a brood of evildoers,

 

[Mendalla]

Who makes up a Nation there Mendalla -----People --Humanity ----you can spin it any way you like ----But Sinful Humanity"s God Like Image is tainted by Sin and the Sin Nature -----Period

Isaish !

Woe to the sinful nation,
a people whose guilt is great,
a brood of evildoers,

No, he is talking to a nation who have fallen away from their covenant with their God. That's not the same as addressing the general human condition. It definitely has general application (nations falling away from their covenants is sadly common in history) but as always, we learn that from context, not quoting a couple lines. And it certainly does not read as saying what you originally contended about the imago dei of individual persons.

 

[unsafe]

No, he is talking to a nation who have fallen away from their covenant with their God. That's not the same as addressing the general human condition.

Mendall ---the Nation is Israel the People ----His chosen People who have the Sin Nature and who are not able to connect to God because of their Sin Nature ---the Sin Nation Rebells against God -----and therefor their God Likeness is Tainted and they lost that True God given likeness -----their Godly Reflection is TAINTED -----

If their Godly Reflection wasn't Tainted they would be obedient to God and doing what God wants them to do -------Sinners Rebel ---their God likeness is Tainted -----

Jesus is the only one who can fix that tainted reflection ---

 

[Mendalla]

Whatever. You and I are never going to come to an agreement but it is interesting to hear your take.

 

[unsafe]

Whatever. You and I are never going to come to an agreement but it is interesting to hear your take.

You are right there because you can only read Scripture through your worldly Lens --you cannot and will not see Scripture through a Spiritual lens ----without Jesus ----

 

[chansen]

Mendall ---the Nation is Israel the People ----His chosen People who have the Sin Nature and who are not able to connect to God because of their Sin Nature ---the Sin Nation Rebells against God -----and therefor their God Likeness is Tainted and they lost that True God given likeness -----their Godly Reflection is TAINTED -----

This is comic book stuff.

 

[unsafe]

but I can find a line to make it work even if it is not where I would go. I can see thinking that the nation and city are made up of individuals and therefore if the whole has been changed so have the individual.
As I say, not what I would do with the passage. If it was aimed at any individuals it would be the leadership rather than the general populace.

GordW ----your post here is scary ----are you serious ----your Quote here --------If it was aimed at any individuals it would be the leadership rather than the general populace.

OH MY LAND -------

The Nation Isaiah is Addressing ----the Jewish Nation ---called Israel ------

Isaiah 1: Judah's Rebellion​

Bible Hub
https://biblehub.com › isaiah › 1.htm

Isaiah 1:2-4 highlights the theme of Israel's rebellion against God.

The passage describes how the children of Israel have "rebelled against Me" (Isaiah 1:2).