The Epicurean Dilemma (Paradox)

[Waterfalls]

It's the same old question, if the Christian God is Omnipotent, why is there suffering in the world?
How have you answered this question for yourself? Or did it cause you to lose faith or possibly just compromise it?
Perhaps you now see God as a strong influence in your life, but you participate in the outcome?
Or has it become just something you've accepted as beyond understanding as you continue your Christian faith journey?
By the way, there are many religions in the world that have a God or God's that are not Omnipotent.
Thoughts?

 

[Waterfalls]

The basic principle of the Epicurus Paradox is this:

If God wants to stop evil but cannot, then God is not all powerful.
If God can prevent evil but does not want to, then he is not benevolent.
If God cannot or does not want to than God is neither Omnipotent nor benevelont.
If God both wants to and can, then why does evil exist?

 

[Luce NDs]

There is a resolution for that but it is not simple and people of emotions cannot accept any sense of understanding ... it is information, intellect, etc. and they want it stopped so they can run wild. The field of activity ends up ruined and collapsed ...

Emotional intelligence in conflict ... and they empathy is removed for a test ... leaves you with a feeling something is missing ... a special delinquency. Some say it is empathy, one stage beyond basic sympathy ...

 

[unsafe]

if the Christian God is Omnipotent, why is there suffering in the world?

First off ----God is the God who created all people ---Religion has nothing to do with God being Omnipotent -----God has all power to Destroy all Coprrupt humanity and this wicked world that we created ------and He showed and is showing His Agape and Mercy to a This Rebellious world today -----as He did in the past to a Rebellious Israel ----Time and Time again -----

The suffering in this Word is causes by the People not God ------God created a Blessed Garden ----with all that was needed to sustain life forever -----We --God's Creation rebelled against God and we created the suffering that is in this world today all by our Rebellious Selves -----God handed over this Planet to Man to be good stewards over the earth and we screwed up and shoved God out -----

So who caused the Suffering we now reap ----Not God --Folks -----WE CAUSED IT

We Expect God to show His power and Fix what Mankind has Demolished all by themselves ---How Arrogrant is That -----Playing the Blame Game is what the World does ----

Eve Blamed the Serpent ---Adam Blaimed Eve ----and so the blame game was Created right in the Garden -----and into today -----Mankind is weak and hates to admit to their shortcomings when it comes to this earthly planet and the mess it is in -----



You want God to Fix this world -----Well He will be and it won't be pleasant for people who think God should be there for their beck and called when they reject Him -----and Expect God to use His power to clear up the Suffering we ourselves created -----

Blows MY Mind -----

 

[Jaebius]

It's the same old question, if the Christian God is Omnipotent, why is there suffering in the world?
How have you answered this question for yourself? Or did it cause you to lose faith or possibly just compromise it?
Perhaps you now see God as a strong influence in your life, but you participate in the outcome?
Or has it become just something you've accepted as beyond understanding as you continue your Christian faith journey?
By the way, there are many religions in the world that have a God or God's that are not Omnipotent.
Thoughts?

For me, Waterfalls, the cross's the strongest answer. Christianity teaches that God entered into the world. The worst evil humanity committed became redemption's means.

I trust the God who grasps why every bad thing happens. His reasons are beyond my grasping. That's not irrational. A finite person shouldn't expect to fully grasp an infinite God.

Faith for me's continuing to trust God's character when I don't have all the answers

 

[Waterfalls]

First off ----God is the God who created all people ---Religion has nothing to do with God being Omnipotent -----God has all power to Destroy all Coprrupt humanity and this wicked world that we created ------and He showed and is showing His Agape and Mercy to a This Rebellious world today -----as He did in the past to a Rebellious Israel ----Time and Time again -----

The suffering in this Word is causes by the People not God ------God created a Blessed Garden ----with all that was needed to sustain life forever -----We --God's Creation rebelled against God and we created the suffering that is in this world today all by our Rebellious Selves -----God handed over this Planet to Man to be good stewards over the earth and we screwed up and shoved God out -----

So who caused the Suffering we now reap ----Not God --Folks -----WE CAUSED IT

We Expect God to show His power and Fix what Mankind has Demolished all by themselves ---How Arrogrant is That -----Playing the Blame Game is what the World does ----

Eve Blamed the Serpent ---Adam Blaimed Eve ----and so the blame game was Created right in the Garden -----and into today -----Mankind is weak and hates to admit to their shortcomings when it comes to this earthly planet and the mess it is in -----



You want God to Fix this world -----Well He will be and it won't be pleasant for people who think God should be there for their beck and called when they reject Him -----and Expect God to use His power to clear up the Suffering we ourselves created -----

Blows MY Mind -----

View attachment 12908

Blame is a harsh word....was it blame when Jesus asked God if there was any other way? Or was it a process to seek a more fleshed out reason for what he had to do?
You may not be able to prevent a course for disease but you can arrive at a place of peace and acceptance. Or having to die young in any number of ways, the initial thoughts may be anger....Christianity may be one process to lead us to accept the inevitable.
I suppose for an atheist, God wont be part of their solution to unfairness in the world, and yet there are many who seek to make the world a better place as well as many Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, etc....
So do you think God is still Omipotent but just steps back to let us step up to the plate? Is God helping us to become more mature in how we deal with things that seem insurmountable by letting us learn our lessons through experience IYO?

 

[Waterfalls]

For me, Waterfalls, the cross's the strongest answer. Christianity teaches that God entered into the world. The worst evil humanity committed became redemption's means.

I trust the God who grasps why every bad thing happens. His reasons are beyond my grasping. That's not irrational. A finite person shouldn't expect to fully grasp an infinite God.

Faith for me's continuing to trust God's character when I don't have all the answers

Fair enough.....just wondering, what is God's character for you? God is love? Is vengeance part of that love?

 

[unsafe]

By the way, there are many religions in the world that have a God or God's that are not Omnipotent.

All Religions are Man made and so are their Human made up gods -----===

The is but ONE TRUE God ----Who Is not Associated with the Different Man Made Religions of this world ------who created this world aand everything in it -----

The ONE God who has No Worldly Religion --

 

[paradox3]

Not sure I ever believed in an omnipotent god. Definitely do not believe in one now.

 

[Luce NDs]

Why wouldn't such an ideal move away from a flawed existence ... if only to look from a safe distance ...?

Someone once said that we were sent here to take a look at God from another perspective ... Second Look Syndrome? It often causes chaos in those that can't take an alternate view ...

 

[GordW]

All Religions are Man made and so are their Human made up gods -----===

The is but ONE TRUE God ----Who Is not Associated with the Different Man Made Religions of this world ------who created this world aand everything in it -----

The ONE God who has No Worldly Religion --

However when and how people worship/honour/laud and understand that God is always a religious exercise. Even if we want to claim it isn't.

At least according to the definition of religion:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

 

[Waterfalls]

Theologian and philosopher,Thomas Jay Oord, argues that God's power functions more like persuasive influence and uncontrolling love rather than coercive or absolute Omnipotence, in his book, " The Death of Omnipotence and the Birth of Amipotence.

 

[GordW]

Theologian and philosopher,Thomas Jay Oord, argues that God's power functions more like persuasive influence and uncontrolling love rather than coercive or absolute Omnipotence, in his book, " The Death of Omnipotence and the Birth of Amipotence.

THe other piece of the omnipotence equation is the free will question. At least for suffering that is caused by humans, if free will is real than God needs to have lost (perhaps voluntarily) a degree of control. Admittedly that does not help when talking about the vagaries of natural disasters.

 

[Luce NDs]

Then there is the one to back off behind the flame, be quiet and watch the Neon Display ... something about sounds in the silence ... like reading quietly by candle light? May require good night vision ... a dark mystery?

 

[Mendalla]

Theologian and philosopher,Thomas Jay Oord, argues that God's power functions more like persuasive influence and uncontrolling love rather than coercive or absolute Omnipotence, in his book, " The Death of Omnipotence and the Birth of Amipotence.

And similarly in his God Can't, which we did a study of here. He's a leading figure in process and open theologies these days. That's kind of where I land. If there is a God, something like the process vision of a God working with the universe as a guide and leader rather than ruling it as an authoritarian monarch fits better with reality as I perceive it.

 

[Luce NDs]

And similarly in his God Can't, which we did a study of here. He's a leading figure in process and open theologies these days. That's kind of where I land. If there is a God, something like the process vision of a God working with the universe as a guide and leader rather than ruling it as an authoritarian monarch fits better with reality as I perceive it.

Imagine open theologies when so many take them as closed situations ... why that hymn say open my heart dear light ... it's dark in ere ...

 

[Jaebius]

Fair enough.....just wondering, what is God's character for you? God is love? Is vengeance part of that love?

Believe vengeance's not part of God's love in the way we think of vengeance. God's vengeance's His perfect and just response to evil. Since God truly loves what's good and beautiful, He must also oppose and judge what destroys it.

I see God's love and justice meeting perfectly in Christ. At the cross, God dealt with sin justly while showing mercy to sinners. That's why Romans 12:19 says, "Vengeance's Mine, I'll repay, says the Lord"

 

[Luce NDs]

Believe vengeance's not part of God's love in the way we think of vengeance. God's vengeance's His perfect and just response to evil. Since God truly loves what's good and beautiful, He must also oppose and judge what destroys it.

I see God's love and justice meeting perfectly in Christ. At the cross, God dealt with sin justly while showing mercy to sinners. That's why Romans 12:19 says, "Vengeance's Mine, I'll repay, says the Lord"

What if people are just the problem because they don't know any better ... and the wee dark spot inside told them to teach the flock ... a point of god's wisdom that is separate from the emotions? Schism will do it ... it is a complex transcendence when love sick ...

 

[Mendalla]

So when and how does God's vengeance come into play, then? Because I can't see how "dealt with sin justly" and "showing mercy to sinners" jibes with "vengeance", which is usually a personal anger aimed at destruction, often without regard for the cost to the person seeking vengeance (think Khan in The Wrath of Khan taking himself and the Reliant out to take one final shot at Kirk). People out for vengeance aren't merciful and are rarely, if ever, just. And if that's not what you mean by "God's vengeance" then maybe "vengeance" is the wrong word.

 

[Waterfalls]

THe other piece of the omnipotence equation is the free will question. At least for suffering that is caused by humans, if free will is real than God needs to have lost (perhaps voluntarily) a degree of control. Admittedly that does not help when talking about the vagaries of natural disasters.

Reminds me of Job, when God voluntarily allowed Satan to test his love for God by taking away all his riches and family, even though God knew Job would still love "God".
This is a very hard test for anyone to endure....