Northwind
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The Church Vs. The State Civil Disobedience
- Thread starter Ritafee
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GeoFee
I am who I am becoming...
For those interested, here is a post from this forum in 2014. It is long and you may not want to read it. I post it only to flesh out my point of view. Here it is:
“Hi (name removed)...
you wrote:
“Simply put ... what I am concerned with is my personal responsibility in the resistance against the exploitive and oppressive powers that do not seem at this point in history remotely on the verge of repentance!”
This is a key question, which each has opportunity to explore and embody. I have found the heart of the matter is located in my imagination. What I think about matters; if it finds its way to action. Not great grand schemes but small repeated motions adding up to patterns of care and compassion; the formation of character.
I was often frustrated because my study, my practice and my advocacy seemed so ineffective. The big picture did not seem to shift even an iota because of my effort.
Gradually I realized that even the smallest expression of justice, mercy and humility added at least that measure to the persons most directly affected. A kind word, a bright smile, a listening ear, a helping hand.
The key being my recognition that the person met along the way is a person loved just as I am loved. Not some distant other to be either pitied or ignored, but the divine image cloaked in unfortunate circumstance.
The rich man who passes by the poor man is not faulted for being rich. He is faulted for failing to see his "neighbour" by his door. He has divided the world into those who count and those who do not count. Much as we see in our own time.
I like Bob Marley on topic. He sings "Exodus, movement of Jah people." I see this as those who long for another way stepping out, vacating the structures of exploitation and oppression to discover a new economy where each has according to need and each gives according to ability. For me, this is the meaning of daily bread as gift and responsibility.”
“Hi (name removed)...
you wrote:
“Simply put ... what I am concerned with is my personal responsibility in the resistance against the exploitive and oppressive powers that do not seem at this point in history remotely on the verge of repentance!”
This is a key question, which each has opportunity to explore and embody. I have found the heart of the matter is located in my imagination. What I think about matters; if it finds its way to action. Not great grand schemes but small repeated motions adding up to patterns of care and compassion; the formation of character.
I was often frustrated because my study, my practice and my advocacy seemed so ineffective. The big picture did not seem to shift even an iota because of my effort.
Gradually I realized that even the smallest expression of justice, mercy and humility added at least that measure to the persons most directly affected. A kind word, a bright smile, a listening ear, a helping hand.
The key being my recognition that the person met along the way is a person loved just as I am loved. Not some distant other to be either pitied or ignored, but the divine image cloaked in unfortunate circumstance.
The rich man who passes by the poor man is not faulted for being rich. He is faulted for failing to see his "neighbour" by his door. He has divided the world into those who count and those who do not count. Much as we see in our own time.
I like Bob Marley on topic. He sings "Exodus, movement of Jah people." I see this as those who long for another way stepping out, vacating the structures of exploitation and oppression to discover a new economy where each has according to need and each gives according to ability. For me, this is the meaning of daily bread as gift and responsibility.”
Ritafee
Is Being Human
Assuming the the people attending are not immunocompromised or if they are they are willing to take the risk and follow whatever protections they deem necessary. You asked what immunocompromised people were to do ... and that is not to say that you cannot go to a church and ask them to respect your boundaries ... the pastor in question has not as far as I know ... dissallowed masks or handwashing and has advised as well that those who are symptomatic stay home. Are you suggesting that because you are immunocompromised ... the people that you choose to associate with should commpromise their immune systems as well?And yet you support the "pastor" who holds large gatherings at this time.
Northwind
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How do people respect the boundaries of others in a crowded space with questionable ventilation?
What gave you the idea I was suggesting such a thing?
Ritafee
Is Being Human
Do vaccines work magic?
Northwind
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If you'd read what I wrote above you will see I don't see them as a magic bullet. They have though done a lot of good.
Ritafee
Is Being Human
If your own boundaries that you deem necessary for your own protection are not being met in crowded spaces with questionable ventilation ... then it is up to you whether you want to take the risk or not ... just as you had to decide for yourself what compromises you would have to make to further your treatment regime for your cancer. You weighed the risks acceptable against the desired outcome ... and you chose for yourself. I have no way of knowing what I would choose to do in your position ... but I suspect I would avoid getting diagnosed in the first place as I do not as a general rule go for diagnostic testing unless I have no other choice to be able to get a treatment that I have already understood to be my best medical intervention for continued quality of life. Pretty much everything that is wrong with my health has been due to my own negligence in taking care of myself properly and environmental conditions that are out of my own control. I smoked I drank I ate junk food I used a lot of chemical toxins that were 'conveniently' offered for consumption before I became more conscious of their ill effects. I still make a lot of choices that are detrimental to my overall well being ... I will have to suffer the consequences ... I do not expect that the next 7 generations should have to pay for my mistakes. The pharmaceutical merry go round of treating symptoms while not addressing the root causes is unsustainable and will not serve future generations any better. And the harmful effects environmentally and healthwise are being compounded not diminished. My body my choice? Your body your choice?
Northwind
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Well you'd be dead by this point then
How easy it is to be trite and judgemental.
Thus exodus is best ... sometimes by exorcism ... sometimes by Lawrence's sense of getting out of the Arabic gritty surroundings ... it may be like Steve McQueen on a motivated bicycle ...
In a sphere of lies ... what is delusion and what s illusion? for those that that don't wish to ... we don't know ... c'est fini! And yet the Kippur goe son ... as yom eh? Even fish canalize ... one against the alternate. Only in essence of soul can this escape the touch of dreamland! Fantasia ...
Ritafee
Is Being Human
Your perception is that they have done a lot of good ... my perception is that they are now at the status of 'over use' due to 'indoctrination'. Everything I try to research using the technology at our 'fingertips' ... puts a stamp of Vaccines are Safe and Effective to override any 'scientific' studies to the contrary. I have my understanding and you have yours ... by my understanding the vaccination experiment needs to be reevaluated honestly ... Big Yellow Memes are not evidence that the unvaccinated are less healthy overall than the vaccinated ... and there is evidence that the vaccinated are actually less healthy overall ... I am erring on the side of caution ... once a vaccine goes in it is hard to take it out.
Interference with nature is just unnatural ... like love against hought ... until someone gets the two parts together to give cautious relaxation therapy! Unt hought 've ...
Northwind
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What evidence?
Ritafee
Is Being Human
And yet I am not ... I had my gall bladder removed ... after I had lost about 50 lbs because I was no longer able to eat. Everyone thought I had cancer ... I just wanted my gall bladder out. I went to the doctor and said I think I need my gallbladder out ... too much damage has been done to be able to reverse it now. I was then subjected to at least 3 other speacialists and numerous diagnotic procedures. Turned out I was right ... I got my gallbladder removed ... it was an overnight hospital visit ... with one weeks worth of Tylenol 3. The first time that I had a gallbladder attack was when I was 18 ... I managed to live with it till I was almost 60. Currently I suffer from constant and often dibilitating lower back pain and what appear to be neurological smptoms that manifest after I eat. Prior to covid I was going to a doctor ... because the doctor was in the same hospital as my mother was and it was very convenient. They ran me through the mill and gave me all sorts of 'medicine' for what it might be but never anthing for what it actually is so I am undiagnosed but still afflicted. I will not be going back to the doctor until it becomes a matter of 'emergency'. I will continue to live till I die. My biggest project that I would like to complete before then is to clean up my own messes and not to do anymore harm within the environment of my own control.
Ritafee
Is Being Human
What evidence for the contrary ... seems to me that the vaccinated are not overall a healthy bunch. I have tried and tried here to present 'evidence' of just that but it is not accepted as valid because it is against the mantra that has been indoctrinated as 'the science'. One way or another ... it is a matter of informed consent.. So those informed that do not consent ... because they have educated themselves ... will not be swayed by a recited narrative. A lot has changed since the first vaccine and not for the better. There is a reason that vaccine manufacturers have insisted on not being liable for damages and I do not think that it out of concern for overall health of the population.
Northwind
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Your little story does not make any point. You said you did not know what you would do if you were in my position. I did not have gallbladder issues. If you were actually in my position and had chosen to avoid diagnosis and treatment, you'd likely be dead or very sick right now.
Northwind
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Well it's appropriate that you've put the word evidence in quotation marks in this sentence.
Genetic malfeasance? May vary from the authorized version ... so as to assist getting out of the presence ... carpe diem? Thus much carping ... evidently missing giving what we know about the source of everything ... a mystery? God being everything an unaccepted as a mystery! Physical authority claims they know but there is some metaphysical uncertainty! Undefined thought ...
Mrs.Anteater
Just keep going....
It’s happy because we don’t die of small pocks anymore.