Ritafee
Is Being Human
The pastor was willing to go to jail ... I am not there yet.
The Church Vs. The State Civil Disobedience
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Ritafee
Is Being Human
Lack of transparency is not helpful when having to choose a side...
“But when you deprive the complainants of the ability to understand how (in this case Dr. Henry) got from A to B, the court can’t look at it, it really isn’t much of a review,” said B.C. Supreme Court Chief Justice Christopher Hinkson. “It gives Dr. Henry absolute authority and if she chooses not to share her thought process with the court, there’s no oversight.”
The judge said the churches were entitled to know how the orders would allow someone to go into a bar and watch a hockey game for an hour or two but at the same time prevent someone from sitting in a church for the same amount of time.
“It is a point I’m struggling with,” he said. “Nobody elected Dr. Henry. She’s been appointed and she has a difficult job. But if you just take it on faith, that’s an ironic term to use. If you just take it on faith that she’s balancing all of these things.”
The judge noted that there was no affidavit filed by Henry.
“So how do I know what Dr. Henry is doing and why?” asked the judge.
Judge grills lawyer about Dr. Henry not providing affidavit in COVID-19 church case
Dr. Henry and the province have said they are confident the health orders are in accordance with the law.
vancouversun.com
They made their point. Henry should need to explain clearly why sports bars can be open but churches can't. It could be purely economics. It could end in them closing both, and shopping centres too, though - instead of more freedoms, less.Lack of transparency is not helpful when having to choose a side...
“But when you deprive the complainants of the ability to understand how (in this case Dr. Henry) got from A to B, the court can’t look at it, it really isn’t much of a review,” said B.C. Supreme Court Chief Justice Christopher Hinkson. “It gives Dr. Henry absolute authority and if she chooses not to share her thought process with the court, there’s no oversight.”
The judge said the churches were entitled to know how the orders would allow someone to go into a bar and watch a hockey game for an hour or two but at the same time prevent someone from sitting in a church for the same amount of time.
“It is a point I’m struggling with,” he said. “Nobody elected Dr. Henry. She’s been appointed and she has a difficult job. But if you just take it on faith, that’s an ironic term to use. If you just take it on faith that she’s balancing all of these things.”
The judge noted that there was no affidavit filed by Henry.
“So how do I know what Dr. Henry is doing and why?” asked the judge.
Judge grills lawyer about Dr. Henry not providing affidavit in COVID-19 church case
Dr. Henry and the province have said they are confident the health orders are in accordance with the law.
Is there a verdict? I missed something I think. I thought the trial was finished today.
It could be, the major demographic that generally attends churches is at greater risk than the demographic that generally goes to bars.
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Deleted. Accidentally copied my post.
revjohn
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone has made this explicit yet. There has been some discussion about it in various communities of faith.
I suspect the primary issue is close contact.
Here at George Street, we worked out which pews are open and which are closed. This allows for individuals and families sharing a bubble to sit in the Sanctuary knowing that there will be 2m of space between their party and any other. We've been very explicit about that and we have created a dedicated team of ushers who disinfect the worship space and touchpoints before and after our face-to-face worship services.
Now that we are at a maximum of 5 for Faith Gatherings each participant disinfects their own area. The organist disinfects the organ. I disinfect the pulpit and our sound guy disinfects the soundboard.
Every now and then, while we worshipped at a maximum of 100, we had senior members lapse back into familiar patterns which meant that many members got into the bubbles of other members and it is that close contact that is what gives Public Health Authorities concern. We've had two funerals while in our pre-lockdown period between Christmas and the middle of February where members, not knowing what to say resorted to the familiar practice of hugging. Which drove our ushers nuts and would have made Public Health Authorities quite nervous.
The act of singing is also something that is discouraged. We have kept it but to do so we have insisted that folks who choose to sing must remain masked throughout the service.
I am the designated shopper for our family. I am not ever tempted to break out in song at Dominion or Kent. I don't hug others or get into their personal space. I am also in and out as quickly as possible. I cannot speak for what is going on in bars, most of us are closed at present so we have never run into the two-tier rules.
Right now with a maximum of 5 in our faith gatherings (Worship, weddings, funerals) that is 5 more people than can enter our local pubs. Our professional basketball and hockey teams belong to leagues that have suspended operations. Most are pointing to a local, high-school Volleyball tournament as being one location for the super spreading of the virus in our second wave.
If faith communities in NL are engaged in "whataboutism" with respect to grocery stores (which have clearly posted occupancy limits along with security at the front door keeping track) I haven't heard about it.
Having been in bars people tend to sit or stand close, touch a lot of surfaces, and there is often singing and shouting, hugging, hand shaking, sharing pub food etc. I think it's a relevant "whatabout". Not like others that are unrelated. The question as to why bars/ pubs are less dangerous gathering places than churches should be answered at least. And if neither are safer - close them both until enough people get vaccinated.
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Northwind
Stationary nomad.
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I'm okay with the pubs that are more restaurant like. We don't eat out often and when we do, it's somewhere we trust. I would not go to any pub when it's later and more drinking focused right now. I also wouldn't go to church in person right now if they opened soon. I suppose I'm agreeing with you
GeoFee
I am who I am becoming...
Our society is structured hierarchically. We are governed by law. To cross the line of that law is to invite repercussion. My primary examples are Jesus and Socrates. Each presented truth as action and each was rejected by the dominant powers. Each presented an egalitarian social order as the way forward in hope. Each gave their best in service to human well-being.
Ritafee
Is Being Human
And each were misrepresented by the media.
Ritafee
Is Being Human
And that is your priviledge. Keeping other people from attending is not.
Ritafee
Is Being Human
Ritafee
Is Being Human
GraceLife associate pastor Jacob Spenst was at the pulpit in place of Coates for 2 Sundays in a row.
Up to seven vehicles containing police and health authorities patrolled the roads outside, collecting 'evidence? against the church'.
Churches across the prairies are opening their pews in solidarity with Coates. Fairview Baptist in Calgary, Heights Baptist in Medicine Hat and Fellowship Baptist in Saskatoon are risking expensive fines and closure notices in the face of lockdown restrictions.
At GraceLife on Feb 21 and Feb 28, while filled to capacity, no tickets were issued and police did not enter the property.
Up to seven vehicles containing police and health authorities patrolled the roads outside, collecting 'evidence? against the church'.
Churches across the prairies are opening their pews in solidarity with Coates. Fairview Baptist in Calgary, Heights Baptist in Medicine Hat and Fellowship Baptist in Saskatoon are risking expensive fines and closure notices in the face of lockdown restrictions.
At GraceLife on Feb 21 and Feb 28, while filled to capacity, no tickets were issued and police did not enter the property.
Ritafee
Is Being Human
The decision on the bail hearing for Pastor James Coates was put over until Friday March 5 at 9:00 a.m.
The bail appeal for the imprisoned GraceLife Church pastor was heard in the Court of Queen's Bench in Edmonton.
Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms lawyer James Kitchen, arguing on behalf of Pastor Coates, stressed that his continued imprisonment at the maximum security Remand Centre is an “embarrassment to the court.”
Pastor Coates has been held in the Remand Centre since February 16, unable to comply with bail conditions that would limit his ability to preach.
During the hearing, which was held over WebEx, the Crown prosecutor was identified as “Public Health Prosecutor” to protect her identity.
The Crown argued that releasing Pastor Coates without conditions on his ability to preach would call into question the reputation of the justice system.
Is he a flight risk?
Is he a violent criminal?
If convicted of breaking the public health order would his sentence even warrant jail time?
A criminal charge of not complying with 'an undertaking' has been thrown in for good measure ... but he did not sign the undertaking in the first place ... so how can he have violated it?
So the secret "public health' Prosecutor Karen Thorsrud and Justice Peter Michalyshyn have determined that at the end of the day we have to keep this dangerous pastor in jail to avert the danger that he poses to the public ... but his church is still open and filled to capacity?
Justice Peter Michalyshyn of the Alberta Court of Queen’s Bench in Edmonton has ruled that Pastor James Coates of Grace Life Church must remain in jail for the next eight weeks pending his trial, unless he agrees to abide by health orders that violates his Charter freedoms of conscience, religion, expression, association and peaceful assembly.
The bail appeal for the imprisoned GraceLife Church pastor was heard in the Court of Queen's Bench in Edmonton.
Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms lawyer James Kitchen, arguing on behalf of Pastor Coates, stressed that his continued imprisonment at the maximum security Remand Centre is an “embarrassment to the court.”
Pastor Coates has been held in the Remand Centre since February 16, unable to comply with bail conditions that would limit his ability to preach.
During the hearing, which was held over WebEx, the Crown prosecutor was identified as “Public Health Prosecutor” to protect her identity.
The Crown argued that releasing Pastor Coates without conditions on his ability to preach would call into question the reputation of the justice system.
Is he a flight risk?
Is he a violent criminal?
If convicted of breaking the public health order would his sentence even warrant jail time?
A criminal charge of not complying with 'an undertaking' has been thrown in for good measure ... but he did not sign the undertaking in the first place ... so how can he have violated it?
So the secret "public health' Prosecutor Karen Thorsrud and Justice Peter Michalyshyn have determined that at the end of the day we have to keep this dangerous pastor in jail to avert the danger that he poses to the public ... but his church is still open and filled to capacity?
Justice Peter Michalyshyn of the Alberta Court of Queen’s Bench in Edmonton has ruled that Pastor James Coates of Grace Life Church must remain in jail for the next eight weeks pending his trial, unless he agrees to abide by health orders that violates his Charter freedoms of conscience, religion, expression, association and peaceful assembly.
Redbaron
Pirate fan since the dark ages
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He is NOT 'unable.' He is unwilling. Huge difference.
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
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Repeated for emphasis.
Some huge percentage of ministers across denominations have been willing to modify their interaction with their congregants in order to keep them as safe as possible during a global pandemic that affects those of church-going age, i.e. an older demographic, more than others. For some of them, this has required creativity, a learning curve with technology, increased time and energy, but they've been willing to do it. This clown hasn't, and now his congregation has no leader in position, which is unfortunate for them.
Ritafee
Is Being Human
Our Leadership - GraceLife Church of Edmonton
Our Leadership Our Leadership Our fervent desire and steadfast commitment is to have a biblically sound church whereby the glorious gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is preached. Our fervent desire and steadfast commitment is to have a biblically sound church whereby the glorious gospel of...
gracelife.ca
