The Church Vs. The State Civil Disobedience

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Ritafee

Is Being Human
So I have been following cases of civil disobedience around the 'church'.

Pastor Coates:

Friday the 26th has been confirmed for the conditions hearing. If the conditions are not waived, he will spend the next three months in prison.​

“A trial set eight weeks down the road is too long for an innocent Pastor to be in jail. Pastor Coates is a peaceful Christian minister. The Justice of the Peace should not have required him to violate his conscience and effectively stop pastoring his church as a condition to be released.

Is this a miscarriage of justice?

 
So I have been following cases of civil disobedience around the 'church'.

Pastor Coates:

Friday the 26th has been confirmed for the conditions hearing. If the conditions are not waived, he will spend the next three months in prison.​

“A trial set eight weeks down the road is too long for an innocent Pastor to be in jail. Pastor Coates is a peaceful Christian minister. The Justice of the Peace should not have required him to violate his conscience and effectively stop pastoring his church as a condition to be released.

Is this a miscarriage of justice?


One must conform or get out ... the razor's edge! Cut a slit .... Schlitz!
 
No I do not feel this is a miscarriage of justice, it only means that he has to come up with new ways to pastor his church, like many other churches already have.
I fail to see how endangering the people in his church is even a good cause.
It seems to me he is focusing on making it all about " fighting for a cause" when there are plenty of causes to attend to. Like feeding the homeless and finding safe housing for others or caring for the lonely. He could be organizing the church to attend to these things rather than a one hour stint on Sunday that is not nearly as effective with what the world needs now.
And if he goes to jail, his congregation will waste their time rallying around him to "save" him.
Wasting a good resource to really help show the world what the church was meant to really do IMO.
 
Public Statement - GraceLife Church of Edmonton Statement Excerpt ...

When COVID-19 first appeared, we shifted to livestream and abided by most of the new government guidelines for our gatherings. But when the first declared public health emergency ended, we opened our doors and returned to nearly normal gatherings on Sunday June 21st, 2020. We did so recognizing COVID-19 was much less severe than the government had initially projected. This sentiment was reflected in the assessment of the Premier of Alberta, who deliberately referred to COVID-19 as “influenza” multiple times in a speech announcing the end of the first declared public health emergency.

In early July, it was brought to our attention that two separate individuals had attended our gatherings on two consecutive Sundays and subsequently tested positive for the virus (both cases being unrelated to each other). At that time, we did our own internal contact tracing (prior to AHS notifying us of the exposure), many of our congregants were tested, and it was determined that no transmission of the virus had taken place. Out of an abundance of caution, we shifted exclusively to livestream and shutdown all other ministries for two weeks (14 days). We did this to mitigate any further spread of COVID-19. When it was evident that no further spread had taken place, we resumed our nearly normal gatherings. Since then, we have gathered as a church each Sunday without incident (28 Sundays to date).


Having engaged in an immense amount of research, interacting with both doctors and frontline healthcare workers, it is apparent that the negative effects of the government lockdown measures on society far surpass the effects of COVID-19. The science being used to justify lockdown measures is both suspect and selective. In fact, there is no empirical evidence that lockdowns are effective in mitigating the spread of the virus. We are gravely concerned that COVID-19 is being used to fundamentally alter society and strip us all of our civil liberties. By the time the so-called “pandemic” is over, if it is ever permitted to be over, Albertans will be utterly reliant on government, instead of free, prosperous, and independent.


As such, we believe love for our neighbor demands that we exercise our civil liberties. We do not see our actions as perpetuating the longevity of COVID-19 or any other virus that will inevitably come along. If anything, we see our actions as contributing to its end – the end of destructive lockdowns and the end of the attempt to institutionalize the debilitating fear of viral infections. Our local church is clear evidence that governmental lockdowns are unnecessary. In fact, it is also evidence of how harmful they are. Without going into detail, we recently lost the life of one of our precious congregants who was denied necessary health care due to government lockdown measures.
 
Yes he was. And he knew it.

But is was subtle so many in the masses couldn't see it below the visible horizon ... dippy!

Once one takes a rigid stand and no flexibility ... there they stand ... religious fixation prevents learning any knowledge ... it is in some old book ... science is evil regardless of the term omniscience ... where all can see unless confined by faith of the blind! It is a dark mystery in psychiatry where some folk are blind without physical reason ... maybe the lack of reason is cause of the psychosis?

It is said psychosis is due to a kind of trance like state where the veil is pulled ... only the sol singularity is blacked out ...

Imagine a sol singularity as a well flocked psyche ... everything gathered!

Yet many do not believe in such essence ... too Aaron in nature ... it all being out there ... Eire it got away?

Consequence may cause a divine split in the pathe ... myth has it that Sophia and Psyche wandered ... thus broad stances ...
 
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No discussion allowed ... that's the word on silence ...
Civil disobedience means nothing if you are not willing, like Martin Luther King Jr., to accept being arrested and punished for breaking the law.

Socrates, Thoreau, Gandhi, and King all understood that protest only has meaning if you accept the consequences.

Pastor Coates broke the law peacefully and peacfully turned himself in.

His congregation continues to break the law peacefully.

The word on silence is ... consent.
 

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Civil disobedience means nothing if you are not willing, like Martin Luther King Jr., to accept being arrested and punished for breaking the law.

Socrates, Thoreau, Gandhi, and King all understood that protest only has meaning if you accept the consequences.

Pastor Coates broke the law peacefully and peacfully turned himself in.

His congregation continues to break the law peacefully.

The word on silence is ... consent.

Imagine how silent what's writ is as it passes time ... sometimes scratched out on bricks ...
 
Civil disobedience on behalf of a historically subjugated and oppressed people, on the basis of skin colour, social and economic status is one thing.
Civil disobedience on behalf of a group that has historically been doing most of the oppressing, is something else entirely different.
To deliberately fly in the face of common sense and government health recommendations is not equivalent to what King, Gandhi, or Socrates did.
They all did it as part of a noble cause, for the oppressed of their day.
Pastor Coates was simply exercising jackassery. A completely different situation altogether.

Yes, he was endangering his congregation. Yes, he knew it. Period.
 
What we don't know is much larger than what we know regardless of how powerfully frightening we make that dark mysterious area!

Scary ??? That's what the tyrants use against the non complex ... simple enough?

Is there anything scary in the temple? There's this dark spot ...
 
God is not welcome or important in this wicked world -------we can go and get liquor and drugs in a government store but we can't allow people to go to church to hear God's word which inbirths the Faith needed to believe in and trust in God ----very sad -----fear of this plague comes from Satan not God ----as long Churches follow the mask wearing ---the distancing and the hand washing ----they are no more a threat than us going into a Wallmart ---Liquor and Cannabis store ---Grocery store or any other essential so called store in my view ----
 
The BIGGEST problem with churches is the singing.

And why, if you have access to a livestreamed service from your own congregation, showing your minister, a few musicians, some tech people, how is this not just as meaningful in the interim as meeting in person? Our service has the words to the hymns, the responsive prayers, etc., all posted for people to read, follow along, etc. We've even done communion.
 
Like Gandhi, King used civil disobedience as a means of effectuating government change.
It took the form of large-scale, non-violent refusals to obey government commands.
As a Baptist minister, Martin Luther King derived much of his philosophy of nonviolent civil disobedience from the Bible and from his understanding of the teachings of Jesus.
 
So, what exactly is the problem with meeting and worshipping virtually during a pandemic?

This is what I don't understand. As we're all watching, governments are struggling to balance their health care systems with their economic systems. Some of them are doing more badly than others. But it's a bit of a mugs game to watch it from the sidelines and criticize decisions made, often with not as much information as you'd like. This virus transmission is only 15 months or so old. We've actually learned a lot really fast.

And transmission in spaces where there is, normally, singing, is just a mega vector for a big spreading event.

So, why can't we worship on-line?
 
So ...

TORONTO — A quarantine screening officer who allegedly demanded cash from a woman before sexually assaulting her at her home faces related charges, police said on Wednesday.

The accused had been trained by the Public Health Agency of Canada as a designated screening officer under the Quarantine Act, Halton regional police said.

According to a police statement, the accused was doing a quarantine compliance check at a home in Oakville, Ont., on Feb. 18.

"The accused informed the victim that they were in violation of the quarantine order and demanded that a fine be paid in cash," police alleged. "When the victim declined to pay, she was sexually assaulted by the accused."

Police said they arrested a man they identified only as Hemant, 27, of Hamilton, on Tuesday. He has been charged with sexual assault and extortion.

The Public Health Agency of Canada said it was "very disturbed" by the alleged events and was co-operating with investigators.

Police refused to disclose the name of the security company that employs the man, but said he had been suspended.

But the Pastor that held in church services with a consenting congregation is in high security prison quarantine?
 
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