The Christian Downfall ---The Error Of Balaam

[Jaebius]

So...without the bible those decisions are our own, and with the bible, those decisions are now...our own?


Yes, just like the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences awards an Oscar yearly to the movie with the biggest plot holes.



You have a book about a homicidal maniac of a deity who initially treats humanity like a 6-year-old boy would treat an ant colony, then gets all touchy-feely by having his son murdered for things his creation did, and I'm supposed to feel good about being listed as his child?

Look, you're projecting an association on people who see your God as something we're glad doesn't exist. I see that as far more disrespectful as anything I've ever written on this site. In this way, I think AC33 and Jae have it right, in the limited sense that if you want to be called a "child of God", then knock yourself out. It's not the most intelligent thing you could say, but you're not telling other people what they are or are not. Of course, they then go ahead and say anyone who doesn't believe correctly is *not* a child a God, so they immediately screw up the one thing they were in the process of getting right, but I think they were briefly on the right track.

What I did was to share a taste of my own experience. If some want to extend it beyond that - that's their choice.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Isn't it wonderful that the Bible is so full of riches and there is so much for us to ponder, so much to try to understand and discern? I'm glad that it isn't up to me to decide who is or isn't a 'child of God'. I tend to believe that we all are God's children and that God loves us all, even those among us who reject God's love.
Jesus said that we should love our neighbours as ourselves, and he also said that we should love our enemies. I see us all as God's children.

That's sort of what I was saying. Except, if we choose to see everyone as a child of God - then they are - and that's part of making peace in the world. I think it's up to us to make that decision. If we choose not to see everyone as a child of God, that contributes to divisions and conflicts - destructive to humanity and the planet we share. We're all interdependent and nobody's life is more or less important. When growing numbers of people believe in a God who is warlike and makes arbitrary decisions as to who his children are - that's their choice, not God's. And we need to love them too.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

So...without the bible those decisions are our own, and with the bible, those decisions are now...our own?


Yes, just like the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences awards an Oscar yearly to the movie with the biggest plot holes.



You have a book about a homicidal maniac of a deity who initially treats humanity like a 6-year-old boy would treat an ant colony, then gets all touchy-feely by having his son murdered for things his creation did, and I'm supposed to feel good about being listed as his child?

Look, you're projecting an association on people who see your God as something we're glad doesn't exist. I see that as far more disrespectful as anything I've ever written on this site. In this way, I think AC33 and Jae have it right, in the limited sense that if you want to be called a "child of God", then knock yourself out. It's not the most intelligent thing you could say, but you're not telling other people what they are or are not. Of course, they then go ahead and say anyone who doesn't believe correctly is *not* a child a God, so they immediately screw up the one thing they were in the process of getting right, but I think they were briefly on the right track.

Yes. Those decisions are our own. We own them. We have to own up to the consequences of doing our best or not to care for the planet and people on it - and the consequences of not making peace a reality- regardless of how much of the Bible we've read.

 

[chansen]

Yes. Those decisions are our own. We own them. We have to own up to the consequences of doing our best or not to care for the planet and people on it - and the consequences of not making peace a reality- regardless of how much of the Bible we've read.

Every time you come to rational conclusions like this, I come back to the same damn question: "Then what the hell is it for?!?"

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

A reminder. Because if we were doing it, the world wouldn't be in the mess it's in. Quite honestly, the secular world, IMO, on the whole does put more value on self interest and competition for money and power - and I don't think that's conducive to a peaceful, just world. Also, for me, it connects those values, of caring for others, to what Jesus was talking about. It's an affirmation.

 

[Neo]

You have a book about a homicidal maniac of a deity who initially treats humanity like a 6-year-old boy would treat an ant colony, then gets all touchy-feely by having his son murdered for things his creation did, and I'm supposed to feel good about being listed as his child?

It's not murder when the victim is voluntarily and willing participating in the act of dying. Death, ironically, is the greatest mystery of life.

 

[Seeler]

Hell is not an important concept in the Bible, particularly the Hebrew scriptures. Personally, I find it very easy to ignore. If there is a hell, it's the one we are making on earth.

 

[Ritafee]

'We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness. Winston writes in his diary that his thoughtcrime makes him a dead man, then he hides the book'. - 1984

 

[crazyheart]

Chansen, what would be so awful to think that your children are children of God? Just wondering?

 

[crazyheart]

There was a puppet ministry at a Baptist church here. They were excellent. These large puppets sang and dance ( the words were a little less than politically correct but everyone loved this youth ministry,

I invited them twice and they were loved. But on the second time the woman, leader, mother? don't know what her roll was.

She started to talk from the pulpit( didn't know she was going to do this. The first time she didn't.

She told the congregation that the devil was waiting to grab their children from the streets. I gasped.

The next week I had all these parents calling saying what should they tell their kids who were asking "who is the devil"

Some were really frightened.,

A good thing was spoiled because of the theology. We never invited them back.

 

[Ritafee]

At any rate God points out to Cain that sin is crouching at his door desiring to master him and that he (Cain) must master it.

Cain was not apparently up to the task (Are we any better).

Sin is crouching at all of our doors right here right now ... as far as our earthly government is concerned we 'are children of the state' ... as for the children of God ... how many just this month have had to face death at the hands of ISIS fighters.

 

[Ritafee]

She started to talk from the pulpit( didn't know she was going to do this. The first time she didn't.

She told the congregation that the devil was waiting to grab their children from the streets. I gasped.

The next week I had all these parents calling saying what should they tell their kids who were asking "who is the devil"

Some were really frightened.,

A good thing was spoiled because of the theology. We never invited them back.

It seems to me that a good thing was spoiled because someone dared to speak a truth ... are you aware of how many central american 'children' are being enticed into the United States by Obama (devil by design) ... what do you think will become of these children in what is quickly becoming the North American Union?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

She wasn't likely talking about Obama, undefinative. She probably wasn't even thinking politically. Unless she was talking about what you had in mind as a truth - that's actually not a true statement. ...just had to point that out...because...


I actually visited a Baptist church a few times as an adult, before I knew much about theological differences, and there was a woman there - not a pastor because they don't allow them - but she had an important role - she was very nice. Anyway, I started asking her some deep theological questions and she told me that the devil was in a spiritual battle for my soul. And that is exactly what she meant. It was too weird for me - too fear driven, I sensed. I stopped visiting there. I don't find that kind of theology helpful - as nice and sincere as she was.

(and Obama's not the devil incarnate - he's just turning out to be a bad politician who's made some bad decisions. What else is new?)

 

[Ritafee]

(and Obama's not the devil incarnate - he's just turning out to be a bad politician who's done some bad things. What else is new?)

I said 'devil by design' (we were speaking of puppets) not incarnate ... I do not understand Kimmio ... why do you beg for clarification of what we are to do about the state of the world ... then dismiss any reference to the real state of the world ... 'too fear driven' ... suggests that fear of evil is to be dismissed at all costs ...

Perhaps someone can enlighten me as to what Jesus meant when he said 'suffer the children to come unto me' ... the interpretation that I am seeing in this world seems to portray the 'suffer' part quite literally ... blood sacrifice of the world's children all around and we stay busy interpreting scripture ... ??

 

[airclean33]

Hi Kimmio -- I agree with the women that had talked to you. It is what The Bible teaches. What I was wondering though why where you afraid of what she spoke of.

 

[crazyheart]

It seems to me that a good thing was spoiled because someone dared to speak a truth ... are you aware of how many central american 'children' are being enticed into the United States by Obama (devil by design) ... what do you think will become of these children in what is quickly becoming the North American Union?

Well, unDefinitive. It is people like you that have caused President Obama to struggle in his presidency.

I have never seen an angel and I have never see the devil. So if I was on the street, I would be at a loss.

It seems to me that it is people like you who are not accepting the children at the border . Help the President

instead of hindering him.

 

[Jaebius]

Well, unDefinitive. It is people like you that have caused President Obama to struggle in his presidency.

I have never seen an angel and I have never see the devil. So if I was on the street, I would be at a loss.

It seems to me that it is people like you who are not accepting the children at the border . Help the President

instead of hindering him.

I believe I may have at least once seen an angel. She was in line in front of me at a department store in northern New Brunswick.

 

[Jaebius]

She wasn't likely talking about Obama, undefinative. She probably wasn't even thinking politically. Unless she was talking about what you had in mind as a truth - that's actually not a true statement. ...just had to point that out...because...


I actually visited a Baptist church a few times as an adult, before I knew much about theological differences, and there was a woman there - not a pastor because they don't allow them - but she had an important role - she was very nice. Anyway, I started asking her some deep theological questions and she told me that the devil was in a spiritual battle for my soul. And that is exactly what she meant. It was too weird for me - too fear driven, I sensed. I stopped visiting there. I don't find that kind of theology helpful - as nice and sincere as she was.

(and Obama's not the devil incarnate - he's just turning out to be a bad politician who's made some bad decisions. What else is new?)

[A small corrective Cousin - some Baptist churches do allow women to be pastors.]

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

In answer to both of you...I don't believe in letting rationality go out the window.

Airclean...I was afraid, that in a vulnerable state, when someone is full of big questions - that is how people can get pretty much fanatacized. The red flags went up. I see it happen to people. And then of course...everything they say is evil is evil and everything they say is good is good (same sex marriage, no women clergy, liberals, people of other faiths). I wasn't going to go down that road. And I'm glad.

Undefinative...what about the possibility that Obama got into government office wanting to make positive change...but the cards were already so stacked against him, he was already swimming against a tide so strong, it has been a near impossibility. He has advisors who ill advise him - one man doesn't make all the decisions all by himself. He delegates. You never know what's going on behind the scenes. We're not privy to every conversation, every hasty decision. Not even most of them. We fill in the gaps with our imaginations. I am not saying Obama, or any other leader, is innocent...but I don't know what kind of job I'd do in their shoes. I would hope that I could prevent wars and senseless deaths, but in reality, the scope of the problems are so huge. And the truth is...we elect these people. And they are mere mortals - and we expect them to save the world immediately. They can't without consensus.

The one thing these days I hope and pray for is an end to violence. Stop the wars. Peace is needed to move ahead in cooperation to address other problems in the world.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

@UnDefinitive I read the news. I see the corruption, the destruction, the despair. I get sad, I fear for the future sometimes, more than sometimes, and I express as much. In answer to your question about fear though...it doesn't seem to help people make rational decisions about how to solve problems when we're inundated with, "The sky is falling!" that is part of the reason why the problems are growing bigger. And the media capitalizes on sowing that fear, also. They could be more of an instrument for peace - but we have to encourage that to happen - remembering that all these agencies and institutions - the "powers and principalities" - are collectives of individual people like you and I.

I feel much better to think in terms of whose life I can make a little easier today. And pray for peace. Be open to opportunities to make peace as they happen, and resist trying to play the blame game. It haven't found it helpful. I'm learning.