The BC Election Result

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Northwind said:
Are you aware that there is movement in this area for clean energy? Fort St John has a great organization called N.E.A.T. that promotes clean energy and stewardship in many ways. There are similar movements in the area.

I am still waiting to hear how technology is being defeated before it gets off the ground.

I'm feeling a little frustrated at being told about the evils of oil and gas by someone in the Lower Mainland with little real knowledge of the bigger picture. It feels more like an academic exercise that something that is useful and real. That being said, I am not saying the oil and gas industry is perfect by any means.
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I'm not on the lower mainland anymore. But close enough.

I don't think you'd find many who see totally eye to eye with you here on that topic. We don't want the tankers - and the pipelines bring oil to the tankers.
 
Kimmio said:
The iPhone - version etc, etc, etc. they work on improvements while the technology is in use - adapting and upgrading the last version. TV's, computers. Oil rigs, I'm sure, have evolved over decades (just guessing). If the technology is not in use ideas for improvement to it won't evolve either.
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I want to hear specific examples relating to the oil and gas industry. Not "just guessing". You can't say something is or isn't happening if you don't know. As I said before, this sounds like an armchair, academic exercise.....
 
Kimmio said:
I don't think you'd find many who see totally eye to eye with you here on that topic.
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I don't expect that everyone agrees completely with me. I doubt I agree with people who work in the oil and gas industry.

We don't want the tankers - and the pipelines bring oil to the tankers.
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Are you suggesting I want tankers? I don't for the record. Pipelines are likely the most efficient and cleanest way to deliver oil and gas products. They do need to be done in an environmentally friendly and safe manner. I'm not convinced the companies are completely on board with that. Northern Gateway being a prime example. The companies seemed to be more interested in profit than environment. I suspect that the protests helped them change some of their views. Profit can come with environmental stewardship.
 
Kimmio said:
But in the case of big oil - there is resistance to allowing it to. And that has made it's way into the psyche's of people resisting change on big oil's behalf. That's what they want.
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Sounds paranoid. When I asked for support for your statements, this is one statement I'd like to see you back up with information. Thanks
 
Northwind said:
Sounds paranoid. When I asked for support for your statements, this is one statement I'd like to see you back up with information. Thanks
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It's not paranoid. I am sure I can, or you can, find many examples of climate science deniers. They've stalled progress for years - in favour of big oil. And, although you are not a climate science denier - I am not sure we can afford, in the longer term, to compromise somewhere between "oil and gas is fine and will always be necessary" - to "we need to be moving away from our dependence on it much faster than we are." I gave you examples of how solar energy is being improved to be stored in the winter...but if nobody knows these things exist and oil companies dig in their heals - and the new companies don't have the government support and capital that the big oil has - then it's being held back.

The oil tankers move it overseas after arriving at port...via pipeline. I would like to see that process slowed, not expanded.
 
Kimmio said:
That may be the case now...but if people give up on the idea there - because it's not available "yet" so we might as well keep defaulting back to reliance on gas, and/ or no funding an effort goes into improving and making better solutions available...that's defeatist. It's not going to help. Maybe oil producers and the powers that go to war over oil are counting on people to give up on clean energy.
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I'm certainly not suggesting that people "give up on the idea." But it's not going to be as simple as DVD players replacing VCRs - precisely because the VCR/DVD thing wasn't very important. This is important, and so it's not going to happen overnight. But should we keep trying to find and invest in new technology? Of course? Should we keep trying to make that new technology more affordable and accessible? Of course. Should we begin to transition the economy in this direction? Of course. And those things are happening. But at the moment new technology and the necessary infrastructure to support the new technology simply isn't available.

In the meantime, though, we're going to continue using oil for a variety of purposes. You can't just stop. We have to find the safest ways possible to extract and transport the oil.
 
Kimmio said:
A few will allow their consciences to outweigh their paycheques, but not many.
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Thus these Eire cases ... duns scotus ... or we may have been grasped by thickness of the blarney ...

Time has come ... someone else can fill in the blanks ... a relative schism in what we don't know!
 
Northwind said:
Like the windmills that are all around the BC Peace? Were you aware of these?

Tiny wind projects pop up across Peace Region
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These are all over Ontario too, but isn't a nuclear power station required to run the windmills or process the power? So that would still continue the cycle of nuclear waste.

Also, Germany isn't exactly a success story for windmills and they've been using them the longest. They are worth watching with regards to wind power as they would rather dismantle the nuclear stations that supports them.
 
Waterfall said:
These are all over Ontario too, but isn't a nuclear power station required to run the windmills or process the power? So that would still continue the cycle of nuclear waste.

Also, Germany isn't exactly a success story for windmills and they've been using them the longest. They are worth watching with regards to wind power as they would rather dismantle the nuclear stations that supports them.
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No. The power from the windmills goes straight into the grid through some kind of transformer system. Nukes are a completely separate option and we need them because even with the number of windmills we have, they still produce a tiny fraction of what this province needs.

Nukes are, quite simply, indispensable until we get consumption in this province down significantly. They are actually quite efficient to operate, but building them properly (ie. such that Fukushima style accidents don't happen) is costly.

However, if we are talking climate change, they have 0 carbon emissions. Radioactive waste and how to contain is a whole different kettle of fish and is actually somewhat easier, at least with CANDU reactors, than trying to sequester carbon.
 
Mendalla said:
No. The power from the windmills goes straight into the grid through some kind of transformer system. Nukes are a completely separate option and we need them because even with the number of windmills we have, they still produce a tiny fraction of what this province needs.

Nukes are, quite simply, indispensable until we get consumption in this province down significantly. They are actually quite efficient to operate, but building them properly (ie. such that Fukushima style accidents don't happen) is costly.

However, if we are talking climate change, they have 0 carbon emissions. Radioactive waste and how to contain is a whole different kettle of fish and is actually somewhat easier, at least with CANDU reactors, than trying to sequester carbon.
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I stand corrected.:oops:

Still we should pay attention to what Germany is experiencing, it's not the success they anticipated:

Germany's Green Energy Disaster: A Cautionary Tale For World Leaders

Loading up on wind and solar is causing new problems for Germany
 
Northwind said:
This article was just on my Facebook feed. I thought it was more recent than it is. @Kimmio it has some information based on research in it.

The mayor of Fort St. John wrote this letter about pipelines to the citizens of British Columbia | Pipelines & Transportation | JWN Energy
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Sorry but I made my argument and it stands. Interesting you'd interject here when I'm in the middle of another bashing down.

We've been manipulated by the government(s) and oil industry, and propaganda regarding both, since 1968, even earlier - there is no more "pro" argument to be made for building more pipelines. It's a decidedly biased "news" and research source, wouldn't you say?
 
Kimmio said:
Sorry but I made my argument and it stands. Interesting you'd interject here when I'm in the middle of another bashing down.

We've been manipulated by the government(s) and oil industry, and propaganda regarding both, since 1968, even earlier - there is no more "pro" argument to be made for building more pipelines. It's a decidedly biased "news" and research source, wouldn't you say?
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I am not posting this as a bash @Kimmio I know Lori in person. She is a very intelligent woman who presents her ideas well. I may not agree with everything she says. I do respect her scholarly nature, and the fact that she can back up her comments with legitimate research and not just ideology.
 
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