Sun News goes dark

[Lastpointe]

We will always have a government of less than 50% when there are more than two parties. I think The largest majority under Chrétien was 37% of the vote.

 

[revsdd]

Perhaps

And I do think it would have been worth while to have it on basic cable.

4.1 million Canadians had it on basic programming. Hardly anybody watched. Those who didn't have it didn't want another channel shoved down their throat and on to their bill that they didn't want. The CRTC responded to that.

 

[revsdd]

We will always have a government of less than 50% when there are more than two parties. I think The largest majority under Chrétien was 37% of the vote.

Nope. Chretien won in 93 with over 41% of the vote. Mulroney won in 84 with over 50% of the vote.

But I'm not talking about party vote. I refer to the Conservative government's traditional level of support (little more than a third of the vote, and a much smaller proportion of actual voters when one takes turnout into consideration) as a good suggestion of what the right wing demographic in Canada is, since there's no other truly significant option for right wing voters. The conservative base in Canada is limited. It can win elections under the system we have, but it can't support a national television network. The numbers just aren't there. On the whole, Canadians just aren't ideologically conservative. The 4.1 million Canadians who had easy access to Sun News demonstrated that. They didn't care. They didn't watch. They didn't want it. It died. Natural selection in the broadcast industry.

 

[Jaebius]

There's the rub. Complaints about mandatory carriage aside, Sun News failed because hardly anybody watched. As I understand it, even without mandatory carriage, they had access to about 4.1 million households in Canada - but their actual viewship was sometimes no more than a few hundred. No one cared. No one watched. Not even those with access. I had access to Sun News from the beginning. I think I turned it on twice. Literally twice. And I'm a news junkie. itvwas an entertainment channel pretending to be a news network. It was full of right wing commentary but lacking in actual news coverage. They tried to rile people up, offend people, outrage people - but even though they sometimes managed to do that, no one watched. People just complained.

As to bias in the media - here's the thing. Mainstream media is by definition mainstream. The reality is that Canadians in general tend to be centre/centre left ideologically. We have the political history and the voting patterns to show that. The current Conservative reign is an anomaly caused by a political system that allows a right wing party to govern even though it gets barely more than a third of the vote. Unlike some, I don't rage against that voting system. I simply note that it produces an unrepresentative result. But for a truly national network to survive it has to appeal to the broadest audience possible. And - Canadians tend to be centre/centre left. If you're outside that broad audience it looks like bias, but it isn't. Appealing to your audience is what you have to do if you want to be watched, and if you don't get watched you don't survive. Sun News is proof. Or, you can only survive if you have an owner with deep pockets who's determined to get his or her point across regardless of viewship and revenue losses. Again, Sun News didn't have that apparently.

Don't you think it's just as likely that Canadians are centre/centre left because the mainstream media has told them to think that way?

 

[paradox3]

Care to share more paradox3?

In general, people seem to assume if someone has been charged with a crime, they must be guilty. The police would never make a mistake, right?

For the most part, reporters made the same assumption about the defendant. There were a few notable exceptions but only a few.

Very interesting to read the media coverage after the trial had ended.

 

[revsdd]

Don't you think it's just as likely that Canadians are centre/centre left because the mainstream media has told them to think that way?

Actually, I don't. Those voting patterns go back a long way before TV networks, etc. existed. They've been around for as long as the country's been around. It's part of our culture, part of who we are. And those who are outside that centre/centre left mainstream will always look for evil bogey men to explain that. Because it can't be that Canadians just disagree with them. It can't be. It just can't be. So everybody who disagrees with them is just part of a herd of brainless sheep being manipulated by the big, bad and evil CBC. Please. Give me a break.

 

[Mendalla]

And I do think it would have been worth while to have it on basic cable.

Bell TV had it in their Digital Standard package (at least on satellite, not sure how they are packaging Fibe) and they still didn't get eyeballs.

 

[Jaebius]

Actually, I don't. Those voting patterns go back a long way before TV networks, etc. existed. They've been around for as long as the country's been around. It's part of our culture, part of who we are. And those who are outside that centre/centre left mainstream will always look for evil bogey men to explain that. Because it can't be that Canadians just disagree with them. It can't be. It just can't be. So everybody who disagrees with them is just part of a herd of brainless sheep being manipulated by the big, bad and evil CBC. Please. Give me a break.

Do you feel at all that your own being on the left influences the opinion you just expressed?

You mentioned life prior to tv - but it's possible that Canadian media had a leftist-slant before the advent of the box.

 

[Mendalla]

Do you feel at all that your own being on the left influences the opinion you just expressed?

You mentioned life prior to tv - but it's possible that Canadian media had a leftist-slant before the advent of the box.

Okay, I'm a centrist. Left leaning on some fronts, right leaning on others. I really don't see a heavy bias at the CBC (in news, some of their commentators, eg. Rick Mercer, do lean left) - and, for instance, Rex Murphy definitely leans right on some issues - nor do I see one a most mainstream private outlets. The Globe and Post are definitely centre, leaning right on fiscal/economic issues. CTV is similar to the Globe, which isn't surprising given that they share a corporate parent in BCE. Have never really watched Global for news so can't really comment on them. Sun, both papers and TV, leans right. So, really, my perception from the centre is that while there may be slight biases here and there, the media as a whole is fairly balanced and if you consume multiple sources of news as I do, you likely will get a balanced picture. And that is as it should be. To expect individual sources to be bias-free is unrealistic, but the overall picture should, if all works well, be relatively balanced over time.

The fact is Jae, that someone who is on the extreme right would see truly balanced media (that occupied the centre) as being biased left and someone on the extreme left (e.g. my wife's Marxist media studies colleagues) would see it as being biased right. And I have heard complaints from both sides. When the left and the right both complain that the media is biased in the opposite direction, it is quite possible, maybe even probable, that it is merely in the middle (not necessarily, but it raises the probability).

 

[revsdd]

Do you feel at all that your own being on the left influences the opinion you just expressed?

You mentioned life prior to tv - but it's possible that Canadian media had a leftist-slant before the advent of the box.

Most interesting to me is your assumption that I'm to the "left." That may call into question your assumption that the media is to the "left." You see the "left" in anyone or anything that doesn't fit your own worldview.

At one time I was a member of the Liberal Party, but I haven't considered myself a partisan in over 25 years. In fact, in 2006 I voted for the Conservative Party. I value the principle of the secret ballot, but am not reluctant to state that the last time I voted for the same party in consecutive federal elections was 1993-1997 when I voted Liberal. Since then I have voted - in no particular order - Liberal, Progressive Conservative, NDP, Green and Conservative. I vote based on the issues of the day, local candidates and party leadership.

If I were going to peg myself with an ideological position, it would be centre-right. If the party still existed I think my natural home would be Progressive Conservative.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Here's a hypothesis: we lean to the centre/left because of our climate. It is completely inhospitable to normal human habitation in the winter, barely tolerable even in Vancouver. For several months each year, it is absolutely imperative that our homeless population (the least among us, from a social justice pov) be kept fed and sheltered, in some fashion, by the rest of us. This necessity tends to lean us to the left (and I think an examination of national cultural norms might identify a similar bent in many northern countries).

 

[Jaebius]

Most interesting to me is your assumption that I'm to the "left." That may call into question your assumption that the media is to the "left." You see the "left" in anyone or anything that doesn't fit your own worldview.

At one time I was a member of the Liberal Party, but I haven't considered myself a partisan in over 25 years. In fact, in 2006 I voted for the Conservative Party. I value the principle of the secret ballot, but am not reluctant to state that the last time I voted for the same party in consecutive federal elections was 1993-1997 when I voted Liberal. Since then I have voted - in no particular order - Liberal, Progressive Conservative, NDP, Green and Conservative. I vote based on the issues of the day, local candidates and party leadership.

If I were going to peg myself with an ideological position, it would be centre-right. If the party still existed I think my natural home would be Progressive Conservative.

While I believe you in what you say about your voting history revsdd - I feel it's a reasonable thing to assume that those who are employed by Canada's most-liberal church denomination would themselves be on the liberal side if things.

 

[revsdd]

Thank you so much for believing me. And no. It's actually not a reasonable assumption at all. To be honest, making such an assumption is rather insulting.

 

[Jaebius]

Here's a hypothesis: we lean to the centre/left because of our climate. It is completely inhospitable to normal human habitation in the winter, barely tolerable even in Vancouver. For several months each year, it is absolutely imperative that our homeless population (the least among us, from a social justice pov) be kept fed and sheltered, in some fashion, by the rest of us. This necessity tends to lean us to the left (and I think an examination of national cultural norms might identify a similar bent in many northern countries).

*rolls eyes*

 

[Jaebius]

Thank you so much for believing me. And no. It's actually not a reasonable assumption at all. To be honest, making such an assumption is rather insulting.

No insult intended. I was unaware that your denomination is loaded-up with conservatives.

 

[revsdd]

No insult intended. I was unaware that your denomination is loaded-up with conservatives.

It's diverse, Jae. Very diverse. But when you choose to apply a stereotype to a diverse group of people rather than treating them as individuals, it's insulting.

 

[Jaebius]

It's diverse, Jae. Very diverse. But when you choose to apply a stereotype to a diverse group of people rather than treating them as individuals, it's insulting.

Then please accept my humble apology revsdd. I actually have a lot of respect for you.

Also - I apologize to rev John - to whom I commented something similar (about being in the left).

At the same time - are we not to be known by the associations that we keep?

 

[revsdd]

Then please accept my humble apology revsdd. I actually have a lot of respect for you.

Also - I apologize to rev John - to whom I commented something similar (about being in the left).

At the same time - are we not to be known by the associations that we keep?

Which is why, since I am a member of the largest Protestant denomination in Canada, the most you should assume reasonably is that I'm a Protestant.

I might also point out that the principle of being known by the company we keep was a principle followed by the Pharisees with respect to Jesus.

 

[GordW]

My local newspaper has three ministers that write a weekly column usually pertaining to religious matters. One is a Penecostal minister the other UCCan and one from New life Community Church. For a city of only 16000 people I wonder if that is a record.

Not even close. Atikokan (which at the time was barely 3000) has a weekly paper with a rotating faith column. We had 6 churches involved: UCCan, ACC, RC, Full Gospel, LCC, Baptist. THe Mormon bishop in town was invited but was unable to take part.

 

[dreamerman]

Not even close. Atikokan (which at the time was barely 3000) has a weekly paper with a rotating faith column. We had 6 churches involved: UCCan, ACC, RC, Full Gospel, LCC, Baptist. THe Mormon bishop in town was invited but was unable to take part.

Now that must be a record.