Subs for Canada

[Jaebius]

A number of my students here in Korea have expressed to me their dislike of a decision made by the Canadian government

It seems we Canadians have chosen to buy billions of dollars worth of German subs instead of Korean ones. Germany and Korea were the only two countries really in the running.

What seems to have tipped the scale in favour of the Germans is simply that Germany's a member of NATO, while Korea isn't.

So the Koreans are upset. Not only at the Canadian government, Mark Carney in particular, but also at their own government whom they feel gave them false hope that the Koreans would take it.

An upside for the Korean company involved is that they're likely now to be seen as a major player in future submarine races around the world

 

[Mendalla]

I saw that one coming a mile away to be honest. Canada is pivoting heavily to Europe and they seem to like to keep it in the family. NATO as a whole is leaning towards European supply chains, esp with the current distrust of the US. Saab (Sweden) is landing a lot of aircraft contracts, for instance, including one here for surveillance aircraft.

Everything I have heard was that either could have done the job and Hanwha seemed to be make some good economic commitments for Canada. But with military procurement, politics inevitably comes into play.

 

[Luce NDs]

Does proximity to red counties on the other side contribute. There is a great distance between the defense structures here vs there ... then the assertiveness of the US member comes into play ... the world game of competing against survival ... the consequence of non-cooperation?

We love the as certation ... as you were folks ... stand down ... no reaction necessary ... if you are deficient in such overriding power ... that is best ...

 

[Jaebius]

I saw that one coming a mile away to be honest. Canada is pivoting heavily to Europe and they seem to like to keep it in the family. NATO as a whole is leaning towards European supply chains, esp with the current distrust of the US. Saab (Sweden) is landing a lot of aircraft contracts, for instance, including one here for surveillance aircraft.

Everything I have heard was that either could have done the job and Hanwha seemed to be make some good economic commitments for Canada. But with military procurement, politics inevitably comes into play.

Yep, military procurement's about the politics wrapped around the tech, Mendalla.

Canada’s tendency to lean into NATO’s FAMILY-FIRST approach makes sense when you look at the bigger picture. Ottawa plays political alignment's long game over pure economics.

Saab landing contracts here in Korea for surveillance aircraft's a perfect example of how these decisions ripple globally

 

[Mendalla]

Saab landing contracts here in Korea for surveillance aircraft's a perfect example of how these decisions ripple globally

To be fair to Saab, they do have a history of building pretty solid aircraft. Even their fighters are competitive with the US and Euro models.

I am less familiar with the naval industry so no idea how TKMS (the German company in question) or Hanwha stacks up. I had never even heard of TKMS before this. Hanwha is a name I've come across before though I couldn't tell you where. Maybe they do shipping themselves as well as building ships so I have seen them in ports I've visited?

 

[Jaebius]

Does proximity to red counties on the other side contribute. There is a great distance between the defense structures here vs there ... then the assertiveness of the US member comes into play ... the world game of competing against survival ... the consequence of non-cooperation?

We love the as certation ... as you were folks ... stand down ... no reaction necessary ... if you are deficient in such overriding power ... that is best ...

That STAND DOWN, NO REACTION NECESSARY vibe you mentioned, Luce, is interesting.

Canada leans into cooperation and alliances precisely because we don’t project raw military dominance on our own. It’s survival through partnership.

There's a fascinating contrast. Korea lives with immediate proximity to potential threats, while Canada’s defense structures are buffered by oceans and alliances. Both approaches highlight different ways of playing survival and copperation's WORLD GAME

 

[Luce NDs]

That STAND DOWN, NO REACTION NECESSARY vibe you mentioned, Luce, is interesting.

Canada leans into cooperation and alliances precisely because we don’t project raw military dominance on our own. It’s survival through partnership.

There's a fascinating contrast. Korea lives with immediate proximity to potential threats, while Canada’s defense structures are buffered by oceans and alliances. Both approaches highlight different ways of playing survival and copperation's WORLD GAME

In Joan Chittister's text on wisdom ... she identifies an under lie ... something to test our senses? We are told to be insensitive and tough and yet the messenger relates that those that assist the least of these are noted ... contrary to the words of those seeking power.

What if knowledge and wisdom are over the horizon and deep ... that 'd be a downer to those rising ... imagine things beneath the hubris (pride & esteem) ... a humble future out of sight pushing up stalks ... epistemology! Green vocation ... hazel or emerald Aye? Time for vegetation and rest ...

Life is like that a great test of psyche ... to see if there is anything in there ... one needs to step out a bit ... the look-back theory! Some just plough on ...

 

[Jaebius]

To be fair to Saab, they do have a history of building pretty solid aircraft. Even their fighters are competitive with the US and Euro models.

Agreed

I am less familiar with the naval industry so no idea how TKMS (the German company in question) or Hanwha stacks up. I had never even heard of TKMS before this. Hanwha is a name I've come across before though I couldn't tell you where. Maybe they do shipping themselves as well as building ships so I have seen them in ports I've visited?

They're new companies to me, too. I learned of them only recently due to a Korean news article (either in The Korean Herald or The Korean Times). One of the things I do with my adult business English students is to read and discuss news articles

 

[Jaebius]

To be fair to Saab, they do have a history of building pretty solid aircraft. Even their fighters are competitive with the US and Euro models.

I am less familiar with the naval industry so no idea how TKMS (the German company in question) or Hanwha stacks up. I had never even heard of TKMS before this. Hanwha is a name I've come across before though I couldn't tell you where. Maybe they do shipping themselves as well as building ships so I have seen them in ports I've visited?

Don't honestly know, Mendalla. It could be they're a conglomerate like Samsung which does many different things. If so, you may have seen their name on something that had nothing to do with boats or shipping

 

[Mendalla]

Don't honestly know, Mendalla. It could be they're a conglomerate like Samsung which does many different things. If so, you may have seen their name on something that had nothing to do with boats or shipping

Yeah, those Korean conglomerates get pretty widespread. I remember Hyundai PCs being advertised in computer magazines around the same time as their cars first came into North American markets. And I see their shipping containers in ports when I am cruising (it's weird how often the cruise port in a city is in or near the container port).

Tata in India is like that, too. Pick an industry in India and Tata probably owns a company in it. Even in the West, their IT consultancy has some presence here and their automotive division bought Jaguar and Land Rover from Ford after the 2008 crisis.

 

[Jaebius]

Yeah, those Korean conglomerates get pretty widespread. I remember Hyundai PCs being advertised in computer magazines around the same time as their cars first came into North American markets. And I see their shipping containers in ports when I am cruising (it's weird how often the cruise port in a city is in or near the container port).

Tata in India is like that, too. Pick an industry in India and Tata probably owns a company in it. Even in the West, their IT consultancy has some presence here and their automotive division bought Jaguar and Land Rover from Ford after the 2008 crisis.

Hadn't heard of Tata before. That's interesting.

You're right about Hyundai. It does all kinds of things.

When I think of conglomerates, I usually think of Samsung. I've taught students at Samsung Construction, Samsung DSR, Samsung Display, Samsung Bioepis, and Samsung Corning. There's also Samsung Electronics. Just driving around you can see Samsung apartments, and stores named Samsung, though the latter often have nothing to do with the conglomerate - the name's just popular

 

[Luce NDs]

Is the submarine deal somehow lost in the Kruger Complex? Military industrial complex doth baffle the world to waste human resources ...

There's something to that as incarnate vision! Things we should be aware of ... astutely as we go down the tubes ... escape ?

The sub continent called it Kali ... here it is another word! Ineffable ... so it skims along hidden ... sacred ... anonymous thing?

That's apart from normal functions ... out there ... hints from above and beyond? Necessary as life explodes ... uncontrolled ... through pure will ...

 

[Jaebius]

Is the submarine deal somehow lost in the Kruger Complex? Military industrial complex doth baffle the world to waste human resources ...

There's something to that as incarnate vision! Things we should be aware of ... astutely as we go down the tubes ... escape ?

The sub continent called it Kali ... here it is another word! Ineffable ... so it skims along hidden ... sacred ... anonymous thing?

That's apart from normal functions ... out there ... hints from above and beyond? Necessary as life explodes ... uncontrolled ... through pure will ...

You’ve got me grinning, Luce, at the way you weave submarines, Kali, and the military industrial complex into one big cosmic riddle.

You’re pointing at how these massive systems skim just beneath the surface, shaping our lives without us always noticing.

I'm here in Korea, Luce, living day-to-day, grabbing Jackson pepperoni pizza in Suwon, laughing with friends, and finding joy in the small stuff

 

[Luce NDs]

You’ve got me grinning, Luce, at the way you weave submarines, Kali, and the military industrial complex into one big cosmic riddle.

You’re pointing at how these massive systems skim just beneath the surface, shaping our lives without us always noticing.

I'm here in Korea, Luce, living day-to-day, grabbing Jackson pepperoni pizza in Suwon, laughing with friends, and finding joy in the small stuff

It is all we can do as the great powers ... being polite ... I'll call it screw up! recall that sage about losing soul ... and foortloose!

Recall great powers hate to see, or hear underdogs laughing ... they'd rather cause them a pain ... what bulls do ... they love gore and the gourd ... stuff poked at ...

Powers hate the serious condition of the supporting layer as say it is best not to be aware of it and it'll go away ... demented?

That's what those that are of hubris call me ... regardless of the fallacy involved ... I've not seen much but enough of the cruelty of man to hiself ... thouusands along the highways ... why? Who would dare say about the inattention to detail ... non-astute or WOKE? Somatics ...

 

[Mendalla]

When I think of conglomerates, I usually think of Samsung.

Same. My phones and tablets are Samsung. My TV is Samsung. My dryer is Samsung. And my HP and Acer laptops probably have at least some Samsung hardware in them.

 

[Luce NDs]

What did Sam sing ???? It was a subtle thing ...

 

[Mendalla]

What did Sam sing ???? It was a subtle thing ...

Which Sam are we talking about? Sam from Casablanca sang "As Time Goes By". Sam Moore sang "Soul Man". There's lots of singing Sams. But we aren't talking about them.

 

[Luce NDs]

Which Sam are we talking about? Sam from Casablanca sang "As Time Goes By". Sam Moore sang "Soul Man". There's lots of singing Sams. But we aren't talking about them.

There's a lot of Sams ... I know some more but a pious, determined sort actually called me a liar in other words ... the power o metaphor?

Then a lot of folk do not believe the foreign intelligence I've encountered ... because it doesn't mesh with what they thought ... ecclesiastical warp?

God was responsible for large variants and odd spectres ... providence ... as provided! Some missed what I got ... eunuch ... a bunch of deprivations?

Sacred an well hidden like Gnostic ... the game of God guest ... wrapped up? Some say it is a repetitive hymn ...