Subs for Canada

[Jaebius]

A number of my students here in Korea have expressed to me their dislike of a decision made by the Canadian government

It seems we Canadians have chosen to buy billions of dollars worth of German subs instead of Korean ones. Germany and Korea were the only two countries really in the running.

What seems to have tipped the scale in favour of the Germans is simply that Germany's a member of NATO, while Korea isn't.

So the Koreans are upset. Not only at the Canadian government, Mark Carney in particular, but also at their own government whom they feel gave them false hope that the Koreans would take it.

An upside for the Korean company involved is that they're likely now to be seen as a major player in future submarine races around the world

 

[Mendalla]

I saw that one coming a mile away to be honest. Canada is pivoting heavily to Europe and they seem to like to keep it in the family. NATO as a whole is leaning towards European supply chains, esp with the current distrust of the US. Saab (Sweden) is landing a lot of aircraft contracts, for instance, including one here for surveillance aircraft.

Everything I have heard was that either could have done the job and Hanwha seemed to be make some good economic commitments for Canada. But with military procurement, politics inevitably comes into play.

 

[Luce NDs]

Does proximity to red counties on the other side contribute. There is a great distance between the defense structures here vs there ... then the assertiveness of the US member comes into play ... the world game of competing against survival ... the consequence of non-cooperation?

We love the as certation ... as you were folks ... stand down ... no reaction necessary ... if you are deficient in such overriding power ... that is best ...

 

[Jaebius]

I saw that one coming a mile away to be honest. Canada is pivoting heavily to Europe and they seem to like to keep it in the family. NATO as a whole is leaning towards European supply chains, esp with the current distrust of the US. Saab (Sweden) is landing a lot of aircraft contracts, for instance, including one here for surveillance aircraft.

Everything I have heard was that either could have done the job and Hanwha seemed to be make some good economic commitments for Canada. But with military procurement, politics inevitably comes into play.

Yep, military procurement's about the politics wrapped around the tech, Mendalla.

Canada’s tendency to lean into NATO’s FAMILY-FIRST approach makes sense when you look at the bigger picture. Ottawa plays political alignment's long game over pure economics.

Saab landing contracts here in Korea for surveillance aircraft's a perfect example of how these decisions ripple globally

 

[Mendalla]

Saab landing contracts here in Korea for surveillance aircraft's a perfect example of how these decisions ripple globally

To be fair to Saab, they do have a history of building pretty solid aircraft. Even their fighters are competitive with the US and Euro models.

I am less familiar with the naval industry so no idea how TKMS (the German company in question) or Hanwha stacks up. I had never even heard of TKMS before this. Hanwha is a name I've come across before though I couldn't tell you where. Maybe they do shipping themselves as well as building ships so I have seen them in ports I've visited?

 

[Jaebius]

Does proximity to red counties on the other side contribute. There is a great distance between the defense structures here vs there ... then the assertiveness of the US member comes into play ... the world game of competing against survival ... the consequence of non-cooperation?

We love the as certation ... as you were folks ... stand down ... no reaction necessary ... if you are deficient in such overriding power ... that is best ...

That STAND DOWN, NO REACTION NECESSARY vibe you mentioned, Luce, is interesting.

Canada leans into cooperation and alliances precisely because we don’t project raw military dominance on our own. It’s survival through partnership.

There's a fascinating contrast. Korea lives with immediate proximity to potential threats, while Canada’s defense structures are buffered by oceans and alliances. Both approaches highlight different ways of playing survival and copperation's WORLD GAME

 

[Luce NDs]

That STAND DOWN, NO REACTION NECESSARY vibe you mentioned, Luce, is interesting.

Canada leans into cooperation and alliances precisely because we don’t project raw military dominance on our own. It’s survival through partnership.

There's a fascinating contrast. Korea lives with immediate proximity to potential threats, while Canada’s defense structures are buffered by oceans and alliances. Both approaches highlight different ways of playing survival and copperation's WORLD GAME

In Joan Chittister's text on wisdom ... she identifies an under lie ... something to test our senses? We are told to be insensitive and tough and yet the messenger relates that those that assist the least of these are noted ... contrary to the words of those seeking power.

What if knowledge and wisdom are over the horizon and deep ... that 'd be a downer to those rising ... imagine things beneath the hubris (pride & esteem) ... a humble future out of sight pushing up stalks ... epistemology! Green vocation ... hazel or emerald Aye? Time for vegetation and rest ...

Life is like that a great test of psyche ... to see if there is anything in there ... one needs to step out a bit ... the look-back theory! Some just plough on ...