Snoopy's Spinoff Thread: The Lord's Prayer (VU 921)

[BetteTheRed]

There is a term for this in Judaism but I don't remember what it is LoL

Tikkun olam. To repair the world.

 

[paradox3]

Line 5: on earth, as it is in heaven.

However we understand heaven, we are called upon to make earth more like heaven.

 

[unsafe]

However we understand heaven, we are called upon to make earth more like heaven.

We were called upon to be stewards of this earth but we have failed miserably at that ---this world is certainly far --far away from being like Heaven ----

This earth is more like living in Hell --than living in Heaven ---but Jesus is going to fix this earth that we made a mess of ----and bring it to a Heaven

 

[paradox3]

What would Jesus have been teaching the people to pray for? What kind of prayer is this?

It begins with praise in lines 1 and 2.

 

[Waterfall]

This earth is more like living in Hell --than living in Heaven ---but Jesus is going to fix this earth that we made a mess of ----and bring it to a Heaven

I'm not surprised Jesus was never a parent....most parents would make you clean up the mess yourself.

 

[paradox3]

Line 6: Give us this day our daily bread.

 

[paradox3]

What is our daily bread? Is it literally bread? Food? More than that?

 

[Mendalla]

It works on a couple levels.

There's a literal "Give us the tangible necessities of life" level, so actual bread.

There's a more metaphorical "Give us the intangible necessities of life" so spiritual sustenance.

So maybe a bit of a double entendre?

 

[paradox3]

Here is my favourite Zen loan

Look for what you are missing in what you have already.

It could be that we already have everything we need to sustain us physically and spiritually but we keep grasping for more.

It could even be that the earth has enough if only we could figure out how to allocate it differently.

 

[unsafe]

What is our daily bread? Is it literally bread? Food? More than that?

It is more than that ----It is God Providing for His Children in every way on a daily bases

God provided daily the water and the food for the Israelites in the desert ---He provided a way for the Israelites to see at night ==He provided a Path way by opening the sea and By His guidance -----He provided Protection from enemies ---etc --etc

All Provisions were daily provided by God for His Children ----and this is all in place today for all who choose to receive Jesus in their hearts

 

[paradox3]

This is very consistent with what Jesus told his followers @unsafe. He often told them not to worry and to trust that they would receive what they needed.

 

[BetteTheRed]

What is our daily bread? Is it literally bread? Food? More than that?

Agree that this is a little confusing, especially as you and unsafe note, elsewhere, Jesus reminds his disciples/followers that godde knows that we need to eat and be clothed, so why now do we specifically need to ask for it?

 

[unsafe]

Jesus reminds his disciples/followers that godde knows that we need to eat and be clothed, so why now do we specifically need to ask for it?

Born Again people don't need to pray for God to provide for them daily ----We start our Pray Thanking God for His daily provisions not asking for them ------

Again this is why True Christians should not pray this Prayer ----Jesus already has accomplished
and put in place our Daily provisions ---they are already available to us and through our Faith and trust in Jesus we receive our daily provisions ---

 

[paradox3]

Lines 7 & 8

And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us.

What do you think? Straightforward?

 

[BetteTheRed]

If you'd like a totally wyrd translation of that which escapes my usual group

"In the hurts we absorb from one another, forgive us"

 

[paradox3]

If you'd like a totally wyrd translation of that which escapes my usual group

"In the hurts we absorb from one another, forgive us"

Cotter seems to be implying we hold on to hurts and grudges & we need to be forgiven for doing so. This is a reasonable enough idea but it seems like a sloppy interpretation of the original text. And he doesn't say anything about any other transgressions we might commit.

 

[paradox3]

Lines 9 & 10

And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.

Thinking about the time Jesus spent in the wilderness being tempted by Satan. One of the gospel accounts tells us that Jesus was called into the wilderness by the Spirit.

 

[Mendalla]

Praying to God to not lead us into temptation seems a bit odd, doesn't it? Isn't delivering us from evil kind of his gig? So why ask the Father to not do something that he wouldn't do anyway?

I mean, the "delivers us from evil" part works. There's plenty of antecedents for that in the psalms, for instance. But asking God to "lead us not into temptation" is the part I wonder about. Though maybe there's Jewish antecedents for that, too?

 

[GordW]

Lines 7 & 8

And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us.

What do you think? Straightforward?

Actually if we are honest I suspect many of us would like to be forgiven far more graciously and prodigiously than we offer forgiveness to others

ANd then there is the issue of trespasses vs. sins vs. debts/debtors as different traditions use those words

 

[paradox3]

And there is the whole question of forgiving oneself.