Snoopy Examines Exodus

[Mendalla]

I think it's a measure of my generation that "stoned oxen" calls up images of a large cow smoking up.

Do not oppress a resident foreigner.

This is an interesting one in light of the immigration debates in many countries, eh. No mention of whether they are a legal resident or anything, just don't oppress a resident foreigner. Of course, in those days, actual immigration was rarer and a resident foreigner was more likely to be a trader, diplomat, or refugee than someone actually migrating from another country in search of a better life or new job or something.

 

[paradox3]

God advises the Israelites to remember when they were the foreigners in Egypt.

 

[Jaebius]

Somehow, it's always the men that matter. Yes, their suffering is important, but the fact that 75% were women is added to a raft of other historical issues that illustrate just how anti-female our culture has been and to some degree still is. It represents, in short, active, brutal persecution of a female-dominant religion by a male-dominant one.

Men and women (and kids) matter to me, and I know do to you too. And I know we're both against brutality and persecution

 

[Jaebius]

Yeah, and it's a theme that has not gone away based on some of the rhetoric in the US election. Men matter, not so much women, seems to be a refrain in some quarters to this day.

Can you please give some examples of that rhetoric in the 2024 US election? I can't recall hearing any of it

 

[paradox3]

Exodus 23: 10-19

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 23:10-19 - New English Translation

Sabbaths and Feasts - “For six years you are to sow your land and gather in its produce. But in the seventh year you must let it lie fallow and leave it alone so that the poor of your people may eat, and what they leave any animal in the field may eat; you must do likewise with your vineyard and...

www.biblegateway.com

God directs that fields are to be planted for six years and left fallow for the seventh.

The people are to work for six days and rest on the seventh. They are not to mention the names of other gods.

God demands three pilgrim feasts per year. All males are to appear before God.
- Feast of Unleavened Bread
- Feast of Harvest (firstfruits)
- Feast of Ingathering (end of the year)

Blood sacrifices must not be offered with bread containing yeast. The fat of the festal sacrifice must remain until morning. The first of the firstfruits of the soil must be brought to God.

A young goat must not be cooked in its mother's milk.

 

[paradox3]

Snoopy's Snappy Review

The God of the Israelites values sacrifices & ritual observances a great deal. Who knew?

Does God change throughout the bible? Or is it you people of faith who change?

 

[Waterfall]

Well the bible also says God hates sacrifice and sees it as an abomination.
I have heard from some conservative Christians that God doesn't change and Jesus is God.
" I desire mercy, not sacrifice"
" For desire steadfast love, not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings"
Does God change? Or is the Hebrew God the same God Christians worship?

 

[paradox3]

Since Jesus was a Torah observant Jew, I believe we are worshipping the same God that He did.

 

[Waterfall]

Since Jesus was a Torah observant Jew, I believe we are worshipping the same God that He did.

So does God change his mind IYO?

 

[paradox3]

So does God change his mind IYO?

I think it must be our understanding of God which changes. These Israelites we are reading about in Exodus were still polytheistic.

 

[Waterfall]

I think it must be our understanding of God which changes. These Israelites we are reading about in Exodus were still polytheistic.

Agree

 

[paradox3]

Agree

Someone might be along to argue with us soon.

I am really enjoying the book of Exodus. More interesting and thought provoking than Genesis. Of course Genesis had its moments.

 

[unsafe]

Well the bible also says God hates sacrifice and sees it as an abomination.

I think you need to read the whole piece of scripture here Waterfall ----your taking what you want out of the sentence and twisting it to suit your frame of mind -----this is what it really says -----

From google
Earlier in the book of Proverbs, Solomon noted that God despises sacrifices from wicked people, but accepts even the prayers of righteous persons (Proverbs 15:8). Here, the Bible notes that when the "wicked," meaning those ungodly and guilty, try to offer Him gifts or sacrifices, He is repulsed.

In Order to come into God's presents to Pray the Israelites sins had to be covered by the Blood of Animals -----this covered their sins for 1 year -----so they could be in God's presents -

 

[GordW]

Well the bible also says God hates sacrifice and sees it as an abomination.
I have heard from some conservative Christians that God doesn't change and Jesus is God.
" I desire mercy, not sacrifice"
" For desire steadfast love, not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings"
Does God change? Or is the Hebrew God the same God Christians worship?

THose prophetic passages are not so much an attack on the sacrifice system as they are an attack on those who get so focused on the rituals and doing them 'right' that they miss the larger part of Torah about how we treat each other. IIRC there is a tenet in Judaism that care for others trumps ritual (for example breaking Sabbath)

 

[GordW]

Does God change throughout the bible? Or is it you people of faith who change?

Maybe a bit of both? Certainly if you look at Scripture from a literary POV the character of God changes over the scope of the story. I hold that this is more as people grow in their understanding of who GOd is their image is broadened.

 

[Waterfall]

I think you need to read the whole piece of scripture here Waterfall ----your taking what you want out of the sentence and twisting it to suit your frame of mind -----this is what it really says -----

From google
Earlier in the book of Proverbs, Solomon noted that God despises sacrifices from wicked people, but accepts even the prayers of righteous persons (Proverbs 15:8). Here, the Bible notes that when the "wicked," meaning those ungodly and guilty, try to offer Him gifts or sacrifices, He is repulsed.

In Order to come into God's presents to Pray the Israelites sins had to be covered by the Blood of Animals -----this covered their sins for 1 year -----so they could be in God's presents -

Jesus points to Hosea 6.6 twice.....

 

[unsafe]

Jesus points to Hosea 6.6 twice.....

Yes --and it is all about unrepented Israelites -----so look at verse 6 God is Saying that he would like their steadfast Loyalty and Faithfulness in their Covenant Relationship -----Rather than Sacrifices and he would like them to have more knowledge of God Rather Than burnt Offerings ----

No where here does He says that He negates the Sacrifice or Burnt Offerings ---he is saying that Rather than them doing these to things He would more like their Loyalty and Faithfulness in their relationship to Him ---

So your taking the Scripture out of Context to say what you want it to say or think what you want to think that it is saying -------

Hosea 6 AMP
​

The Response to God’s Rebuke​

6 “Come and let us return [in repentance] to the Lord,
For He has torn us, but He will heal us;
He has wounded us, but He will bandage us.

5 Therefore, I have hewn them in pieces by [the words of] the prophets;
I have slain them by the words of My mouth;
My judgments [pronounced upon them by the prophets] are like the light that shines forth [obvious to all].


6 For I desire and delight in [steadfast] loyalty [faithfulness in the covenant relationship], rather than sacrifice,
And in the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

7
But they, like Adam, have transgressed the covenant;
There they have dealt treacherously against Me.​

 

[Waterfall]

So your taking the Scripture out of Context to say what you want it to say or think what you want to think that it is saying -------

​

​

Imagine that.

 

[paradox3]

Exodus 23: 20-32

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 23:20-32 - New English Translation

The Angel of the Presence - “I am going to send an angel before you to protect you as you journey and to bring you into the place that I have prepared. Take heed because of him, and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions, for my Name is in him. But...

www.biblegateway.com

God promises to send an angel before the Israelites to protect them and bring them to the place that has been prepared. This angel must be obeyed.

God promises to destroy five other peoples. Little by little they will be driven out so the land will not become desolate and overrun with wild animals.

God will bless the Israelites with good health and they will be fruitful. No woman will be barren and they will carry their babies to term.

The Israelites are forbidden to make covenants with any other gods.

 

[paradox3]

Snoopy's Snappy Review

God demands loyalty and makes many promises.

Do we still believe this describes God's character today?