Snoopy Considers 1 Corinthians

[Jaebius]

Snoopy's Snappy Question: Where does it say "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"?

Isn't it in Romans? Didn't Paul write those words?

Yes p3, that's right. The verse "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" is Romans 3:23.

The verse is a powerful reminder of God's grace. Paul goes on to explain in the following verses that we're justified freely by God's grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus

 

[paradox3]

Where is the grace, though, in booting everyone on Paul's list out of the church? And wishing Satan's destruction upon them?

Here's what I have been wondering: Has Paul rethought certain things by the time he corresponds with the Romans?

 

[unsafe]

So here we see 0n the 5th Chapter

How believer are to handle believers when they are actively sinning in the Church ----Satan is still very active here and is causing a big disturbance with immoral sinful actions within the body of the Church ---and they are doing nothing to correct it -----

And this is still very present in today's Churches ----and is not dealt with ----we allow Satan to run ramped in our Churches today ---causing strife and division and conflict ----

and again Paul is dealing very sternly with the Believers who are allowing this immoral sinful behaviour to carry on -----and he says this ----

verse 1
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, impurity of a sort that is condemned and does not occur even among the heathen;

----So here we see him saying ---even Heathens have moral standards about such immoral actions ----
Verse 3 ---says even though he is absent --he is using his Righteous Judgment here as though he were there with them ---

Very stern instructions here ---verse 5
You are to deliver this man over to Satan for physical discipline [to destroy carnal lusts which prompted him to incest], that [his] spirit may [yet] be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

So here we see that the new Christian in their Carnal state adhere to their fleshy desires ----it is important for the Carnal Christian to start on the process of Maturing from the Milk to the Meat as they are very vulnerable to backing sliding and even denouncing their Faith ====

Paul says turn him over to Satan ---by sending him out from the True Church and putting back into Satan's domaine this world ---his Spiritual protection as well as his Social comfort with being with other believers is removed ----and hopefully he will see the light and repent and come back into the fold -----

I say -----Most true Christians today will die in this Carnal state as Maturing takes a lot of work and time in the Word and most people today don't have the stamina to stay the course of maturing in my opinion ---

The Corinthian Church is showing pride by not weeding out the sin from their group ---Paul says this -----Do you not know that [just] a little leaven will ferment the whole lump [of dough]?

Verses 9-10 --Paul says AMPC B

9---I wrote you in my [previous] letter not to associate [closely and habitually] with unchaste (impure) people—

10 Not [meaning of course that you must] altogether shun the immoral people of this world, or the greedy graspers and cheats and thieves or idolaters, since otherwise you would need to get out of the world and human society altogether!

I sy ------Now why does he say this ----because this Church is still on Milk they are Carnal -----and can be influenced by continually being in the company of unbelievers ----Believer need the stability of other Believers to stay in the sheep fold ----

Maturity in the Believer is a life time journey ---and not many will get far in this journey one has to be hungry and thirsty and committed to going in their Faith walk with Christ -----

So in Verse 11 ---he is saying that if anyone says the bear the name Christian and habitually sins and known to be guilty do not associate with this person ----

This is describing the False Christian here ----one who uses the Name only

In verse 12 --he says that True Believer are to not judge worldly people ---why because they are living rightly with the standards of the World ---

and God is their Judge -----Paul says -----

More of Paul's hard Preaching and Righteous Judgments against God's Church ------

My view is ------not enough correction --discipline and Righteous Judgment done in the body of the Church today ----Satan is allow to runs Rampid in the Churches today -----

More Paul's need to be in Ministry today --in my opinion -----

 

[paradox3]

The word you are looking for is rampant @unsafe. Not ramped or Rampid.

Paul seems to be suggesting there needs to be more peer to peer discipline/ correction in the church. Not necessarily more Pauls in leadership positions.

 

[unsafe]

The word you are looking for is rampant @unsafe. Not ramped or Rampid.

Thanks for the correction paradox3 ----

 

[unsafe]

Not necessarily more Pauls in leadership positions.

Just to clarify ------This was just my opinion for more Ministers like Paul Preaching and overseeing their Church today -----

 

[paradox3]

Thanks for the correction paradox3 ----

Haha. I thought you would see the humour in it. Good catch.

 

[Mendalla]

This was just my opinion for more Ministers like Paul Preaching and overseeing their Church today

Isn't that mostly what ministers do? I mean, overseeing in a spiritual rather than governance sense since a lot of Protestant churches are governed by boards and the congregation with the minister responsible to them but spiritual growth is very much the minister's area in those. Even in UU'ism, if a congregation has a minister, they technically have control of the pulpit and who is allowed to preach on lay-led Sundays even if they generally exercise that in league with a worship committee rather than unilaterally.

 

[paradox3]

@Mendalla
I think that @unsafe is zeroing in on the need to rebuke folks for inappropriate behaviour.

 

[unsafe]

Isn't that mostly what ministers do?

In what Church today do you see Ministers calling out immoral acts in the Church like Paul is doing in this Chapter ----Most Ministers are False Christians themselves --they use the word Christian only -----very few True Christians in the pulpit today -----just saying ----

Paul is not scared of hard preaching and calling out what is wrong in his Church -----

 

[Mendalla]

Lots of the evangelical churches for starters are very focused on sin and calling it out. So there's no lack of that kind of preaching. But not everyone sees that as the right focus for ministry or sees the problems the way that you do. Some ministers see the biggest moral failings as things like residential schools and other manifestations of colonialism and racism, and those often get called out. It's really just another disagreement among Christians about what the Bible is really all about. What are the priorities for the church's mission in the world? That will then decide what gets called out.

 

[Jaebius]

Where is the grace, though, in booting everyone on Paul's list out of the church? And wishing Satan's destruction upon them?

Here's what I have been wondering: Has Paul rethought certain things by the time he corresponds with the Romans?

Context played a crucial role in shaping Paul's words. I see his urgency to address lapses within the church in 1 Corinthians as an act of pastoral care, driven by his love. His goal was their restoration.

Paul’s mention of "handing over to Satan" (1 Corinthians 5:5) is a call to repentance. It’s an extension of the tough love that’s necessary for spiritual healing. It’s akin to the tough conversations we have today, calling someone to account in hopes of their renewal.

Paul uses a different tone in his letter to the Romans. We encounter a Paul who’s more focused on the all-encompassing grace of God.

This shift signifies Paul’s evolving understanding of God’s grace: from a disciplinary approach to an inclusive one. This completes his earlier teachings. It’s the realization that grace is ever the bedrock of our faith.

In today’s world, our challenge is to balance truth and grace. Churches are called to uphold the truth of the Good News while extending the boundless grace that Christ offers. It’s a dance that reflects the heart of God’s love for us all

 

[Waterfall]

Apollo's was seen as the spiritual leader and mentor in Corinth, by some of the people, and they excluded the leadership of Paul and Peter.
Apollo's teachings differed from Paul's.
Paul could tell the other apostles where to go to spread God's word, but Apollo's said he would listen to God as to where he should go.
So perhaps some rivalry, even though they were mostly on the same page?
And who was Apollo's? It is thought he wrote Hebrews, not Paul.

 

[Jaebius]

So here we see 0n the 5th Chapter

How believer are to handle believers when they are actively sinning in the Church ----Satan is still very active here and is causing a big disturbance with immoral sinful actions within the body of the Church ---and they are doing nothing to correct it -----

And this is still very present in today's Churches ----and is not dealt with ----we allow Satan to run ramped in our Churches today ---causing strife and division and conflict ----

and again Paul is dealing very sternly with the Believers who are allowing this immoral sinful behaviour to carry on -----and he says this ----

verse 1
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, impurity of a sort that is condemned and does not occur even among the heathen;

----So here we see him saying ---even Heathens have moral standards about such immoral actions ----
Verse 3 ---says even though he is absent --he is using his Righteous Judgment here as though he were there with them ---

Very stern instructions here ---verse 5
You are to deliver this man over to Satan for physical discipline [to destroy carnal lusts which prompted him to incest], that [his] spirit may [yet] be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

So here we see that the new Christian in their Carnal state adhere to their fleshy desires ----it is important for the Carnal Christian to start on the process of Maturing from the Milk to the Meat as they are very vulnerable to backing sliding and even denouncing their Faith ====

Paul says turn him over to Satan ---by sending him out from the True Church and putting back into Satan's domaine this world ---his Spiritual protection as well as his Social comfort with being with other believers is removed ----and hopefully he will see the light and repent and come back into the fold -----

I say -----Most true Christians today will die in this Carnal state as Maturing takes a lot of work and time in the Word and most people today don't have the stamina to stay the course of maturing in my opinion ---

The Corinthian Church is showing pride by not weeding out the sin from their group ---Paul says this -----Do you not know that [just] a little leaven will ferment the whole lump [of dough]?

Verses 9-10 --Paul says AMPC B

9---I wrote you in my [previous] letter not to associate [closely and habitually] with unchaste (impure) people—

10 Not [meaning of course that you must] altogether shun the immoral people of this world, or the greedy graspers and cheats and thieves or idolaters, since otherwise you would need to get out of the world and human society altogether!

I sy ------Now why does he say this ----because this Church is still on Milk they are Carnal -----and can be influenced by continually being in the company of unbelievers ----Believer need the stability of other Believers to stay in the sheep fold ----

Maturity in the Believer is a life time journey ---and not many will get far in this journey one has to be hungry and thirsty and committed to going in their Faith walk with Christ -----

So in Verse 11 ---he is saying that if anyone says the bear the name Christian and habitually sins and known to be guilty do not associate with this person ----

This is describing the False Christian here ----one who uses the Name only

In verse 12 --he says that True Believer are to not judge worldly people ---why because they are living rightly with the standards of the World ---

and God is their Judge -----Paul says -----

More of Paul's hard Preaching and Righteous Judgments against God's Church ------

My view is ------not enough correction --discipline and Righteous Judgment done in the body of the Church today ----Satan is allow to runs Rampid in the Churches today -----

More Paul's need to be in Ministry today --in my opinion -----

Yes unsafe, Paul's letters to the Corinthians were filled with exhortation for the church to uphold moral integrity. His words reflect his love for the community, urging them to embrace a life led by the Spirit.

However, I also believe that our approach to such matters must be balanced with grace. Jesus himself embodied both truth and love, calling out sin while extending hope to those who repent. Our mission is to reflect his heart in all we do

 

[Waterfall]

I will add this just to give you an interesting tidbit in case some have never heard this before about Apollo's:

https:// www.patheos.com/blogs/thepursuitofholiness/2022/08/why-i-think-apollos-wrote-hebrews/

 

[paradox3]

@Jae
How is "handing over to Satan" a call to repentance? I am not getting the connection at all.

It does seem that the handed over ones will benefit spiritually from the destruction of their flesh. (Could someone explain this, please?)

Ths chapter seems to be a directive to boot the evil-doers out of the church.

 

[Jaebius]

Isn't that mostly what ministers do? I mean, overseeing in a spiritual rather than governance sense since a lot of Protestant churches are governed by boards and the congregation with the minister responsible to them but spiritual growth is very much the minister's area in those. Even in UU'ism, if a congregation has a minister, they technically have control of the pulpit and who is allowed to preach on lay-led Sundays even if they generally exercise that in league with a worship committee rather than unilaterally.

Spiritual oversight is a big part of what we pastors do. It’s a blend of guiding the congregation's spiritual journey while working alongside governance structures like boards and committees. How that plays out in my own case is that I'm a jeondosa (missionary/evangelist) working alongside a bujangnim (department manager).

Our partnership ensures that we're grounded in both spiritual growth and practical stewardship. I'm there to shepherd, inspire, and nurture the spiritual well-being of the English Language Worship members. The control of the pulpit emphasizes my responsibility to safeguard the spiritual integrity of the church’s message

 

[Mendalla]

Apollo's was seen as the spiritual leader and mentor in Corinth, by some of the people, and they excluded the leadership of Paul and Peter.
Apollo's teachings differed from Paul's.
Paul could tell the other apostles where to go to spread God's word, but Apollo's said he would listen to God as to where he should go.
So perhaps some rivalry, even though they were mostly on the same page?
And who was Apollo's? It is thought he wrote Hebrews, not Paul.

I hadn't heard that theory before, but it's hardly the only NT epistle where there are questions about authorship.

In general, there seem to have been a number of teachers/leaders in that early church and, yes, they did not always agree and there were rivalries at times. The whole conflict over whether Gentiles had to follow Jewish law was one of the bigger ones.

I think the problem we face today in looking at that period and those conflicts is that the church finally, mostly went Paul's way, pushing aside the others. So we often get the Pauline view of those other teachers rather than their own. And the formation of the institutional church after Constantine legalized Christianity led to some of those divergent views getting tagged as heresies or at least pushed even further aside. So we see the writings that the post-Pauline, post-Constantinian church wanted us to see save for the glimmers that archaeological and other finds have given us of non-canonical writings.

 

[Waterfall]

I hadn't heard that theory before, but it's hardly the only NT epistle where there are questions about authorship.

In general, there seem to have been a number of teachers/leaders in that early church and, yes, they did not always agree and there were rivalries at times. The whole conflict over whether Gentiles had to follow Jewish law was one of the bigger ones.

I think the problem we face today in looking at that period and those conflicts is that the church finally, mostly went Paul's way, pushing aside the others. So we often get the Pauline view of those other teachers rather than their own. And the formation of the institutional church after Constantine legalized Christianity led to some of those divergent views getting tagged as heresies or at least pushed even further aside. So we see the writings that the post-Pauline, post-Constantinian church wanted us to see save for the glimmers that archaeological and other finds have given us of non-canonical writings.

I would welcome this view,because quite frankly, too much of the NT is dominated by Paul IMO and I don't see that as healthy.
Even just saying Paul didn't write Hebrews but someone anonymous, opens our minds more to know how Jesus and God were seen by others in early Christianity without having to make it fit with Paul's writings.

 

[Jaebius]

In what Church today do you see Ministers calling out immoral acts in the Church like Paul is doing in this Chapter ----Most Ministers are False Christians themselves --they use the word Christian only -----very few True Christians in the pulpit today -----just saying ----

Paul is not scared of hard preaching and calling out what is wrong in his Church -----

Believe, unsafe, that the journey of faith is about the continuous pursuit of becoming more like Christ.

Many of my fellow pastors and I are committed to addressing immorality. As we do so, we must remember the grace that Jesus exemplified, offering hope to those who stray.

Paul’s example reminds us of the importance of speaking truth in love. It's about nurturing what's right.

Please pray for us leaders and support us as we embody the teachings of Christ