Revisiting Mark

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Waterfall

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At this early point in Jesus' mission or career, I wonder what He might have been praying for. Guidance for the day, definitely.

Patience for dealing with the crowds? Wisdom to teach the people and lead the first four disciples? Discernment in selecting the others?

Did He miss his family, maybe? Was he praying for them, too? Was he giving thanks for the angels who had tended him in those 40 days? We can only speculate of course.

Maybe Jesus just sat quietly in the presence of God and listened for God's voice. This, too, is prayer.
40 seems to be a common number....wasn't it the same amount of days that Moses fasted and went up Mt. Sinai to receive the ten commandments from God and Elijah spent 40 days fasting in the wilderness?(they were also at the transfiguration with Jesus.)
The number 40 in Judaism represents a period of probation, trial and chastisement.....Israel tested God by their disobedience in the dessert, but it was the Devil that tested Jesus' obedience.
 

Mendalla

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40 seems to be a common number....wasn't it the same amount of days that Moses fasted and went up Mt. Sinai to receive the ten commandments from God and Elijah spent 40 days fasting in the wilderness?(they were also at the transfiguration with Jesus.)
The number 40 in Judaism represents a period of probation, trial and chastisement.....Israel tested God by their disobedience in the dessert, but it was the Devil that tested Jesus' obedience.

Yeah, 40 is one of those magic numbers that is used a lot. The flood was 40 days and nights. There is likely a numerological significance but I would have to research it.
 

Waterfall

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Yeah, 40 is one of those magic numbers that is used a lot. The flood was 40 days and nights. There is likely a numerological significance but I would have to research it.
It's within my paragraph....it means probation, trial and chastisement.
 

Mendalla

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It's within my paragraph....it means probation, trial and chastisement.

But is that the source or an effect? The Noah story goes back well before what we know as Judaism (in fact, it was probably based on the story of Utnapishtim, the Sumerian Flood myth found in Gilgamesh). Maybe that's the reason 40 means that rather than the other way around. Was 40 significant in other cultures of the region, esp. Mesopotamia?
 

Waterfall

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But is that the source or an effect? The Noah story goes back well before what we know as Judaism (in fact, it was probably based on the story of Utnapishtim, the Sumerian Flood myth found in Gilgamesh). Maybe that's the reason 40 means that rather than the other way around. Was 40 significant in other cultures of the region, esp. Mesopotamia?
Oh I see where you're going, okay if you find out, that would be interesting.
 

paradox3

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Mark 2

This gospel writer is brilliant! Carrying on in a rapid pace, he adds more depth and character to Jesus.

Mark's Jesus is bold.

He is already attracting the attention of the Pharisees and clashing with them. He makes the rather startling claim that He has the authority on earth to forgive sins. He eats with sinners and tax collectors and has even called one of them, Levi, to be his disciple.

We see that Jesus is well-grounded in the Hebrew scriptures, yet he has new ideas about fasting and Sabbath observance.

Jesus can be plain spoken. "Follow me," he says to Levi.

As a mystery teacher, Jesus can be enigmatic. What does he mean with his talk of new and old cloth? New and old wineskins?

For reflection today:

The Sabbath was made for people, not people for the Sabbath. For this reason, the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath. Mark 1: 27-28 NET
 

Luce NDs

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It is best to be enlightened than in the dark, mysterious state of blinded by love alone!

Isn't that de evilest thing to say to those that would rather avoid bad news and truth ... thus alternate facts and fractal matter! Templar matter ... it is said that some 40 monks were involved in the scripting of a salted legend ... its the pickle we're in ...

I'll copy this elsewhere as it is off track with the 40 faceted stone ...
 

paradox3

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The Sabbath was made for people, not people for the Sabbath. For this reason, the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.

The first part of this quote seems straightforward enough and I know it from childhood. "The sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath," it says in the KJV. Observing Sabbath is one of God's commandments. It can take some discipline to follow this commandment, that's for sure, yet it is also a wonderful gift.

What is your experience with observing Sabbath?

In this time of restrictions and feeling slowed down, is Sabbath still relevant?

Jesus says he is lord of the Sabbath. This seems like a remarkable assertion and I am not sure what to make of it. Any ideas?
 

Luce NDs

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The Sabbath was made for people, not people for the Sabbath. For this reason, the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.

The first part of this quote seems straightforward enough and I know it from childhood. "The sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath," it says in the KJV. Observing Sabbath is one of God's commandments. It can take some discipline to follow this commandment, that's for sure, yet it is also a wonderful gift.

What is your experience with observing Sabbath?

In this time of restrictions and feeling slowed down, is Sabbath still relevant?

Jesus says he is lord of the Sabbath. This seems like a remarkable assertion and I am not sure what to make of it. Any ideas?

It is a complex communication and simply said by tyrants I'm not allowed to speak straight out on the matter due to enforced licentiousness ... free speech, etc is restricted by lawyers and responsibility to protect the upper crust! Perhaps because I wander and question alternate facts about love and thus intelligence is buried sublimely in myth of levity! That's leviathan elite ... the other kind ... with hate removed? Ever hate to hear bad news and bear it well? Then the absolute powers stepped in telling us about all they knew over and above the abstract ... the grain of wisdom in the dark form? Muse' d tardy effect ... the after taste ...
 

paradox3

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The Sabbath was made for people, not people for the Sabbath. For this reason, the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.

This almost works like a Zen koan . . . very good for pondering.
 

Lastpointe

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The Sabbath was made , by god, for people to pause, rest, reflect, pray. I suspect that there Is a lot of all those activities going on now. Maybe not on just the sabbath though

jesus being lord of the sabbath implies that Jesus doesn’t have to follow the rules? He wants to change the rules. He wants people to be less focused on rules and more on relationship. It I don’t get that here
 

Mendalla

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Everything here seems to be him schooling the religious leaders and undermining their authority. Forgiving sins, commanding spirits, taking back the Sabbath, dining with outsiders, all seem to be designed to show Jesus as the one who has the real authority over these matters.

The Sabbath quote is part of that, though the second part is a bit enigmatic, like the title "Son of Man" itself. I think it is Jesus basically telling the scribes that he is the one who can decide what is right or wrong on the Sabbath, not them.

What is your experience with observing Sabbath?

In this time of restrictions and feeling slowed down, is Sabbath still relevant?

For me, having a day or two to slow down and change pace still matters. I still work an 7.5 hour day even if I am doing it in my home rather than driving to the office. And perhaps it can be the day when we focus on things other than covid and the mess that is the world and get ourselves re-centred. This, too, shall pass and keeping ourselves mentally and spiritually healthy for that day matters.

That said, I don't keep Sabbath in a conventional way even in normal times. I slow down and maybe focus a bit more on "spiritual" matters, but I hardly put life on hold.

And that's what I think is really important about this teaching. It essentially undercuts a legalistic understanding of the Sabbath, and that would include the old Sabbath laws we had. It says to me that the Sabbath was made for people so people, rather than rigid law codes, should be in control of what they do and don't do.
 

Waterfall

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The Sabbath was made for people, not people for the Sabbath. For this reason, the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.

This almost works like a Zen koan . . . very good for pondering.

I'm having a problem with this, is He saying he is lord of the Sabbath above God or because he is God or because he is knows more than the Pharisees? From what I understand Mark doesn't say that Jesus is God anywhere in his gospel.
 

paradox3

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The management style of Jesus is certainly something to contemplate. Wow! I didn't expect Mark 2 to take us here :)

I have never really looked at any of the stories in this chapter as evidence of Jesus exercising his authority. But I can see it when I think about it. I have some deeply ingrained concepts of Jesus . . . gentle Jesus meek and mild, the holy and perfect sacrifice, the lamb of God, etc.

Jesus can be all these things and more, right?
 

paradox3

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I'm having a problem with this, is He saying he is lord of the Sabbath above God or because he is God or because he is knows more than the Pharisees? From what I understand Mark doesn't say that Jesus is God anywhere in his gospel.
I have always thought he was presenting a less legalistic view than the Pharisees, so I guess he might be saying he knows more than they do. But I agree that it is ambiguous.
 

Mendalla

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I'm having a problem with this, is He saying he is lord of the Sabbath above God or because he is God or because he is knows more than the Pharisees? From what I understand Mark doesn't say that Jesus is God anywhere in his gospel.

Mark identifies Jesus as the son of God multiple times before this (it is right in Mark 1:1). One suspects that would give him some knowledge and authority above a mere scribe or Pharisee.

But I find it interesting that it is the title "Son of Man" that Jesus invokes when he claims authority over the Sabbath. Understanding that term is the key.
 

paradox3

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In keeping with Mark's tendency to get all cards on the table quickly, the title "Son of Man" shows up early in this gospel. (Mark 2: 10)

And it was interesting that the demon in Mark 1 identified Him as the "Holy One of God". (v.24)
 

paradox3

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But I find it interesting that it is the title "Son of Man" that Jesus invokes when he claims authority over the Sabbath. Understanding that term is the key
Can you say more about the term "Son of Man"? I have always been under the impression that the exact definition is a bit of a mystery.
 
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