Resolution - to read the Bible

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Matthew 25 has several parables that are somewhat familiar to many people; ie the parable of the 10 bridesmaids, five wise and five foolIsh; Matthew’s version of the parable of the talents. Some of them are unique to Matthew and some also appear in Luke. I was surprised to find that the very familiar passage,, sometimes referred to as the ‘inasmuch’ story is only told in Matthew. In the story Jesus tells his followers that when we show kindness and help onto ‘the least of these’ it is as though we were doing it onto Jesus. Today Seelerman and I spent three hours down at the church preparing lunch, and giving out vouchers and/or bags of food to those in need. One sad case was a woman whose husband had just got to the hospital after having serious abdomenal surgery. His disability cheque had not arrived and they were very low on food and money. We gave them a bag of nutritious food and a voucher for the nearby grocery store. She cried in gratitude as we hugged her. I think that type of service is what Jesus was referring to and the inasmuch passage. I felt blessed to be able to help her.
 
BetteThe Red ------unsafe says ---there is no problem with what I posted -----those are God's words -----if you have a problem with them you will have to Talk to God about your thinking ----

-As Believers who Seeler says she is ---that is people who have the Holy Spirit residing in them are to rightly divide the Word of God as indicated in scripture -----whatever is said that contradicts scripture is deemed False Doctrine -----The Holy Spirit WILL NEVER BetteTheRed direct anyone to say anything that goes against what the Word says -----So Now if Seeler can show a scripture that says Mark and Matthew and Luke copied each other to write their own words down then and only then will I change my mind -----Seeler claims to Have the direction of the Holy Spirit helping her but her Postings show different as she contradicts the word of God and shows she is wrongly dividing the Word of God ------That does not come from the Holy Spirit BetteTheRed ---Period ----


BetteTheRed ----your quote ------ The only problem with this, unsafe, is that Timothy is a letter, possibly from Paul, although some modern scholars date it much later (as late as mid-second century)

unsafe says ----There is your problem right there -----NOT SURE -----not sure ---not sure ------all guess work BetteTheRed no real dates --no nothing ------With God's word BetteTheRed ---there is no guess work ---it says it is the Truth and contains no lies ------it says the word is good today ---it says it will not return void ----it is give assurance ----it speaks -----there is no guess work involved ------So I will stick with the Word ---you stick with your guess work ------and Seeler is welcome to wrongly divide the word ---she is not hurting me and she is not fooling me either that the Holy Spirit guides her when she says things like the Gospel writers are coping each other ---those are her own words and wrong thinking guided by someone other than the Holy Spirit -----God word is believed by and through Faith not our own thoughts or whims of what we think it might be -----
 
You've ignored the meat of my discussion, unsafe.

The point is, that the letter of Paul to Timothy, is part of a group of scriptures that ARE NOT SCRIPTURES YET. Historically, the canon of the New Testament will not be finalized for a long time after this letter is written, and included.

So, the only "scriptures" according to Paul, that are useful for instruction, etc., are the Hebrew Scriptures, and I made a rather strong point about how Jewish people "take instruction" about scriptures. It sure isn't one person telling others exactly HOW they should interpret.
 
BetteThered -----your quote ----The point is, that the letter of Paul to Timothy, is part of a group of scriptures that ARE NOT SCRIPTURES YET. Historically, the canon of the New Testament will not be finalized for a long time after this letter is written, and included.


unsafe says -----you are grasping at straws BetteTheRed ------the letter of Paul to Timothy, is part of a group of scriptures that ARE NOT SCRIPTURES YET.

unsafe says -----Tell that to God and see what He says about what your saying here ------


Your Quote ----- So, the only "scriptures" according to Paul, that are useful for instruction, etc., are the Hebrew Scriptures, and I made a rather strong point about how Jewish people "take instruction" about scriptures. It sure isn't one person telling others exactly HOW they should interpret.


unsafe says ---There is one person telling us how we should rightly divide His Word and there is one Person telling us WHO will guide us in all truth which is God's Word ----and that is God on both counts ------The Holy Spirit is God and is sent to dwell in us to guide us and illuminate what the Word Says ---And The Person Of The Holy Spirit will NEVER contradict The Logos ---and who is the Logos ---Jesus ---the Word (Logos ) Jesus became Flesh and dwelt among us ------

Ministers and Lay Ministers have a responsibility to Preach and write the Truth --and there are many Preaching and writing False Doctrine and saying it comes from the Holy Spirit ----it shows their ignorance as to what the Truth is ----and the Church needs to get wise and knowledgeable of what the scriptures say so they can know when people are duping them and feeding them a bunch of hogwash ------
 
PG-13, I'm not really sure where you are going with this conversation. There's a pretty solid core of Christianity who are respectfully into "talking about scripture". I absolutely get that neither you nor unsafe are in that place. So if your only response is "no change, no response, no different take on that subject/idea" to everything put in front of you, then where are we going? Your meat, your wine, are better and tastier than ours. Your opinion on Christian spirituality is similarly superior?
 
BetteTheRed said:
PG-13, I'm not really sure where you are going with this conversation. There's a pretty solid core of Christianity who are respectfully into "talking about scripture". I absolutely get that neither you nor unsafe are in that place. So if your only response is "no change, no response, no different take on that subject/idea" to everything put in front of you, then where are we going? Your meat, your wine, are better and tastier than ours. Your opinion on Christian spirituality is similarly superior?
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It's not about superiority it's about truth, what is the truth in a certain teaching of a passage?

If one View contradicts the other View what does that tell you about truth?

The fact will be either one party has it correct or they both have it wrong but they both can't have it right if they are conflicting views.
 
If one believes the word of King James as God ... would one be true to the letter man ... even though KJ contracted it out to a bunch of Monks?

Beyond that all is conjecture and theory as stated in solipsism ... but that involving soul/mind/psyche would eliminate that essence as the Roman Rulers sized up thinking man as dangerous if emotionalism was to win ... and the claim to greatness gets *CHUCKLE* even in the world court and ICC as Trump attempts isolationism ... a work for hard nuts!

Roman Religion took place in stone edifices ... which still could be bought down by Sami populations as demos ... demon-IHCs?

If you don;t think about them will the worry and caring go way ... or become as PTSD? This may be sub-continental drift ... platism ... superlative plates!
 
Seeler ---your quote ------ In the story Jesus tells his followers that when we show kindness and help onto ‘the least of these’ it is as though we were doing it onto Jesus.

unsafe says -----This is the parable you speak of here below-----verse 40 is the verse you single out here -----in order to get the real sense of the meaning of verse 40 here ---we must first understand who Jesus is speaking to and who are the sheep and who are the goats -----This parable is all about the last judgment ----Jesus coming to separate the Sheep and the Goats -----

The sheep belong to Christ and help others in His Name which gives the Glory to God ---they help others out of their love for Christ seeking no personal Glory ----

the goats only think they belong to Christ by doing their Good Deeds and help others to puff themselves up --get credit and brag giving themselves the glory-----their hearts are not with Christ -----as the scripture says ---they honor me with their lips but their hearts are far from me ------ Matthew 15:8 ----Many today are honouring God with their Lips only -----Saying they are True Christians ---This is verse 45 from the Parable below ----45 Then He will say to them, ‘For sure, I tell you, because you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’


unsafe says ----Here lies the Problem ----we take one piece of scripture and use it our of context and make our own Doctrine out of it ------We are not all God's Children ------We are God's Creation ----We are only God's Children by one way under the New Covenant -----by receiving
Jesus as our Lord and Saviour -----Jesus in this parable is speaking here of the future when He will come back and separate the flock -----

Matthew 25 (NLV)

The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His shining-greatness, He will sit down on His throne of greatness. All the angels will be with Him. 32 All the nations of the earth will be gathered before Him. He will divide them from each other as a shepherd divides the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on His right side, but the goats He will put on His left side.

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right side, ‘Come, you who have been called by My Father. Come into the holy nation that has been made ready for you before the world was made. 35 For I was hungry and you gave Me food to eat. I was thirsty and you gave Me water to drink. I was a stranger and you gave Me a room. 36 I had no clothes and you gave Me clothes to wear. I was sick and you cared for Me. I was in prison and you came to see Me.’

37 “Then those that are right with God will say, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You? When did we see You thirsty and give You a drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and give You a room? When did we see You had no clothes and we gave You clothes? 39 And when did we see You sick or in prison and we came to You?’ 40 Then the King will say, ‘For sure, I tell you, because you did it to one of the least of My brothers, you have done it to Me.’

41 “Then the King will say to those on His left side, ‘Go away from Me! You are guilty! Go into the fire that lasts forever. It has been made ready for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry but you did not give Me food to eat. I was thirsty but you did not give Me water to drink. 43 I was a stranger but you did not give Me a room. I had no clothes but you did not give Me clothes. I was sick and in prison but you did not come to see Me.’

44 “Then they will ask, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger? When did we see You without clothes or sick or in prison and did not care for You?’ 45 Then He will say to them, ‘For sure, I tell you, because you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 These will go to the place where they will be punished forever. But those right with God will have life that lasts forever.”
 
No, unsafe, I'm drawing the line there. You will NOT ruin my favorite parable with your distorted theology. Yuck...

This passage is CLEARLY meant to back up other passages where Jesus describes his God's mansion as having many rooms, and also to emphasize the logic that God clearly didn't visit only a tiny group of Jewish rebels in the first century in Palestine and nowhere else. Most modern Christians have a Universalist bent.

IF there is any judgment upon humanity after death, and I neither know nor care whether there is, Jesus points out to the judgment we can make right now, about every single one of our behaviours. If there is someone in front of you with a need, especially if their need is unlikely to be met due to their disadvantaged status (child, orphan, addict, widow, elderly, sick, imprisoned, homeless, refugee), then it is YOUR job to look to that need.
 
BetteTheRed said:

This passage is CLEARLY meant to back up other passages where Jesus describes his God's mansion as having many rooms, and also to emphasize the logic that God clearly didn't visit only a tiny group of Jewish rebels in the first century in Palestine and nowhere else. Most modern Christians have a Universalist bent.
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if your talking about Matt 25, clearly Its Jesus passing judgement

IF there is any judgment upon humanity after death
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indeed there is

, and I neither know nor care whether there is, Jesus points out to the judgment we can make right now, about every single one of our behaviours.
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yes agreed , 2 greatest commandments


If there is someone in front of you with a need, especially if their need is unlikely to be met due to their disadvantaged status (child, orphan, addict, widow, elderly, sick, imprisoned, homeless, refugee), then it is YOUR job to look to that need.
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sometimes in our [FONT=Open Sans, sans-serif] human failures we look at the transgression , rather that the person needing spiritual uplifting , we are quick to pass judgement on them because some how it elevates us from the failures we commit ourselves, I included more than anyone.

though I disagree with you on some topics, you constantly speak of helping the poor and down and out, and that is to be commended on your part , that is the compassion part of you.

as Christians , for me any how and from a lot of Christians i have met over the yrs , the hard part of speaking & standing on Truth is to speak it with compassion and humility, I am still working on that part, its not easy.

when I see the life of Jesus from birth to death, He spoke freedom Life & liberty to all, then He committed Life , freedom and Liberty with His own Life regardless of their failures. Ultimate Judgement rests in the ability of Christ, and thank God because as you can see we suck at it. So for now as you continually point out :

If there is someone in front of you with a need, especially if their need is unlikely to be met due to their disadvantaged status (child, orphan, addict, widow, elderly, sick, imprisoned, homeless, refugee), then it is YOUR job to look to that need.


I couldnt agree with you more [/FONT]
 
BetteTheRed -----your quote -----No, unsafe, I'm drawing the line there. You will NOT ruin my favorite parable with your distorted theology. Yuck...

unsafe says ----Well BetteTheRed youcan draw as many lines as you want to -----it makes no difference to me ------I guess you don't believe there will be a last Judgment of separating the Sheep and the Goats ---that is OK to -----but that is what this parable is about line by line ------

That is the Line I draw -------



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unsafe says and posted scripture
I have only one thing to say and it is from God Himself -----1 Corinthians 2:14 ----it is to do with Spiritual Blindness


1corinthians_2_14-nonchristianscantunderstand.jpg
 
And once again, it's the thoughtful, empathetic people who reject this theology, and the simple, desperate types who cling to it. It is all they have. They need their cult to be right, or everything comes crashing down around them.

I don't care about any of the scripture, but I look at Bette and I see that she is doing her best to reconcile the words with a loving deity. I look at unsafe and blackbelt and they just want to unlock a reward. And by the words in the bible, they may even be right about the proper interpretation. But it just doesn't matter what the founders of a cult wrote down.
 
blackbelt1961 said:
if your talking about Matt 25, clearly Its Jesus passing judgement
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Oh, absolutely. He's passing judgment, in the here and now, on who is working for his kin-dom. The sheep, of whatever damned denomination or religion, are those who feed/clothe/visit/support/love all of their neighbours in need, especially the "least". The goats are those who ignore the needs of any of their neighbours. I suspect that most of us fail at least some of the time at this, whether we're Jewish/Muslim/atheist/Christian/indigenous spirituality, etc. Knowing what I know very closely about a refugee family - their lives, their culture, their history, their needs - I find current anti-immigrant/refugee sentiment very painful to listen to. I hope that someone would be kind to me should, Godde forbid, I ever be driven out of my country, on foot, with nothing but what's on my back, perhaps children in tow, maybe a babe in my arms.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Oh, absolutely. He's passing judgment, in the here and now, on who is working for his kin-dom.
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let me understand you correctly , , yes in matt 25 is passing Judgement on our current life , the here and now, but it has eternal consequences as see in the continuation of Matt 25
 
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