Resolution - to read the Bible

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That's a haunting thought, seeler, of our history. That a young woman is equal to livestock - a spoil of war.
 
It was common for the victors to rape the livestock and pillage the women.
 
You guys are funny, and that's great. Women are still the "spoils of war". Rape of women is still a weapon, pretty well everywhere. If you've ever been raped, which a huge percentage of us have been, not so funny...
 
BetteTheRed said:
You guys are funny, and that's great. Women are still the "spoils of war". Rape of women is still a weapon, pretty well everywhere. If you've ever been raped, which a huge percentage of us have been, not so funny...
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Not just rape either. There's the whole concept of "trophy wives."
 
Women are autonomous humans. Should they choose to pose as "trophies" is largely their business. I wasn't talking about "sex for security"; I was talking about rape.
 
Seeler said:
I finished reading Numbers today. What can I say? Wordy, repetative, with little apparent revelance to my life today.
The name of the book is Numbers; and there were numbers - two censuses, counting all the adult male members of the twelve tribes and the Levites.
Numbers of Israelites that are too great for me to imagine. An entire nation wandering like nomads around the Sinai for forth years? I have heard that it either didn't happen or that the numbers were greatly exaggarated. I lean towards the latter. But whatever their numbers, they were apparently a powerful group. No wonder resident tribes hesitated to grant them passage through their lands. But no matter, no permission is just an excuse to do battle and, with God on their side (they believed), they defeated any tribes that stood in their way. In one case killing all the men and boys, and adult women - and sparing the young girls to be numbered among the livestock as spoils of war.
In one way the Israelites were refugees - fleeing a country where they were enslaved and having no country as their own. But refugees are not often more powerful than the countries through which they pass.

Moving on to Deuteronomy - possibly (probably) written by a different author(s).
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How could we know ... given the Hebrew sway towards God as an unknown? Thus leaving the mortals to experience lack of eternal knowledge and wisdom ... I.E. God'sole? A Shadow is presented as that underlying it ...
 
BetteTheRed said:
Women are autonomous humans. Should they choose to pose as "trophies" is largely their business. I wasn't talking about "sex for security"; I was talking about rape.
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Some are given, some are sold ... tis quite an exchange ... stock market as bazaar? Could they come back to bite us? Rats ...
 
My understanding of females captured in battle were eventually absorbed into the culture of the winners. Some became wives - 2nd, 3rd or 4th wives, or concubines, or simply slaves. The very young might be adopted. In a society where females were pretty much at the bottom of the ladder, these girls would be at the bottom or the bottom. By the luck of the draw they might be claimed by kind men, or by monsters.
 
Seeler said:
My understanding of females captured in battle were eventually absorbed into the culture of the winners. Some became wives - 2nd, 3rd or 4th wives, or concubines, or simply slaves. The very young might be adopted. In a society where females were pretty much at the bottom of the ladder, these girls would be at the bottom or the bottom. By the luck of the draw they might be claimed by kind men, or by monsters.
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Sort of defines the quantum cosmos ... an observation of the mind as passive and/or active even if it can't be seen working ... thought, knowledge and the process thereof is critical ... although some despise critical notions! It may depend on the order of presentation to those preset in what they expect ... there are psychological etudes into such dark immaterial stuff to much of the earthly hosts that would rather not think of it ... if denied does this make information buried, subliminal ... or just sectors of the partisan underground ... that is cognizant to those superficially out there ... fascists?

Some ilitant marching required to demonstrate the positive energy ... the lesser holes can suck it up ... so that now you know where info goes to ... when sacred ... the bowels of VC? Some call this cellars, others crypts ... and thus cryptic explicates ...
 
Corporeally we really don't know what people are saying ... conversely what we say when we repeat ancient scripts ... and thus fulfill the rule of not knowing when in a state of passions ... indicating where intelligence resides ... out de're bi ... Goan ... agrees with the Webster boys ...

Some excavation of old stuff may be prerequisite !
 
Moving on - I've finished the first four chapters of Deuteronomy. My guess was correct in that I find this a much easier and more enjoyable read than Leviticus or Numbers were. My understanding is that it was written (or compiled from various sources and rewritten) during the reforms under king Josiah centuries after the events it covers. The style of writing flows smoothly and even though it covers much of the same material as in the earlier books, the writing style is much improved.
It begins where Numbers left off, with the Israelites camped on the east side of the Jordan river about to cross into the promised land. Moses addresses the assembly reviewing the highlights of their journey. His retelling doesn't seem as violent as reports in Numbers. Several tribes permitted the peaceful passage of the Israelites through their lands. Nevertheless it does tell of other tribes who were completely eliminated.
Some administrative tasks were completed: The tribes of Reuban and Gad and half the tribe of Manasseh will be assigned blocks of land east of Jordan. The other tribes will cross over and be assigned their portions of the land. Moses himself will not cross over the Jordan but will view the promised land from the hill country before he dies. Joshua will become the leader.
 
Deuteronomy 5 & 6 - The Ten Commandments first written in Exodus are repeated with some subtle differences. These are the ones I memorized as a child. It might be interesting to compare the two lists. Interesting in the foourth commandments - Sabbath rest is for the slaves and foreigners - they are to remember that they were slaves in Egypt.
In fact Moses reminds them of the importance of repeating their history and teaching it to their children. Hear Oh Israel, the Lord is One.
The commandment to love the Lord your God with all your heart ...
And a reminder of the Covenant relationship. Good stuff.
 
Deut. 7 - 13 - Moses continues to address the people, reminding them of the importance of passing on their story to the next generation. Review of the laws with particular emphasis on the commandment against idolatry.
 
Deuteronomy 17: 14-20 -- I found this an interesting couple of paragraphs.
Moses tells the Israelites (a paraphrase) 'IF you decide to have a king, be sure to appooint oveer you a king he Lord your God chooses.
He must be from among your fellow Israelites.
He must not acquire a great number of horses for himself - or make the people return to Egypt to get more. They aare not to go back to Egypt again.
He must not take many wives
He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold.
He is to write for himself a copy of the law taken from that of the Levitical priests.
He must follow carefully all the words of this law.
He must not consider himself better than his followers.'

This helps me to agree that Deuteronomy wass written much later than the time of Moses. My understanding is that for centuries after reaching the promised land the people did not have a king but judges were appointed by the various tribes to settle disputes. Saul, and then David, were the first kings - and Samuel actually argued against appointing kings, before giving in to the will of the people and agreeing to annoint them - first Saul, and then when Saul had fallen out of favour, replacing him with David.
Deuteronomy was written some time later. And neither Saul nor David (nor David's descendants) seem to fit well with the criteria mentioned in Deut.

This is only the second time in the Bible that I find horses mentioned (the first time was when the Egyptian horses and chariots tried to follow the Israelites crossing the Red Sea). I think horses were rare or non-existent among the Israelites fleeing slavery. Even at the time of the kingss, they seem to be luxury items. Probably oxen or donkeys were still the beasts of burden.
 
Sort of indicates a trend to anti-capitalism ... a recent article on TED.Talks ...

The presenter exposed capitalism as an operating affair not an idealism ... God wasn't there either! This should allow more flexibility of the whetted sol ... solitude inclusive? Thus one can present expletives to the indeterminate self ... like "Omaha gawd when will they ever learn?"

Word does have some give to it creating creepers of thought ... conspired?
 
I'm really enjoying reading Deuteronomy. As a form of literature it is Moses addressing the Israelites near the end of their journey and near the end of his life. It is well done.
Chapter 28 has given me a lot to think about. It is about blessings and curses.
I heard once that the Bible begins and ends with a picture of the world as God's kingdom - of heaven on earth. The garden of Eden; the New Jerusalem. And in between -- every so often we are reminded of this --- a world of possibillities. I see the first half of this chapter, the Blessings, as a picture of a perfect world - the promised land that the Israelite people have been given by God.

The second half of Deut. 28, the curses, is a bitter contrast. I struggle with it.
The land they are about to enter is a land of contrasts - the rich valleys of the Jordan River with its city-states, and the slightly populated hills and high areas. Because of its location near the Mediterranean Sea, and its highlands and deep valleys, it has changeable and unpredictable weather. It may have drought in one valley and rich crops in the next. Some areas will have too much rain - crops will fail, sickness will abound. Famine is a reality. And the good land was already occupied. The Canaanite tribes are not likely to welcome the Israelites who have come to replace them on lands that they have occupied for centuries. The Israelite people, at least those in leadership, would have been aware of this. Was Moses warning the people of things to come and placing the responsibility on the keeping of the covenant? Was this a primitive understanding of the relationship between God and the people?
Or
I mentioned earlier that this book was thought to be written (or compiled and rewritten) around the time of King Josiah. Israel had broken the Covenant many times. The once powerful united nation under Kings David and Solomon had split in two, there were threats from foreign powers (Assyria and Babylon) from without, and unrest among the people within. Was the writer(s) simply describing conditions as they were at the time of writing - not necessarily the same as those of the time they were writing aboout?

I wish I had more time and talent to explain this better. I realize that my words do not flow as smoothly as Deuteronomy.
Back to reading .
 
Was Jordan better whetted than the arid imagination? That'd be ae Jibe ...

Now in another string I mentioned Andrew Solomon's TED.talk on depression and his illustration of Colossus ... Goya's description of a great hunger.

Was Moses a Colossus to his Mob that wished greater learning than he was prepared to tech them about? Such may illustrate mortal limits to human sol ... and that continued eschewing ... you may even hear it in the night as Jim Reeves sings He'll have to Go ! Tis an incarnate form given the powers wish to hide sooths ...
 
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