Pope says Jesus death at the cross was a failure

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blackbelt1961

blackbelt1961

Well-Known Member


so everyone all over the internet is up in arms over the Popes statement :



" And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus… and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross.”



A Friend of mine who is a Minister said this :

"His life humanly speaking ended in failure, the failure of the Cross" I agree. If this snippet was placed within its context the Pope is juxtaposing human success, hierarchy and advancement to the foolishness of the Cross.

Much of the Pope's "speeches" are sermons which are based on the lectionary readings. The lectionary is very thematic and when placed along the church calendar it seeks to bring us through the life of Christ. You'll find as the church moves closer to Easter the readings will reflect more in the Cross and redemption and so will the Pontiff's sermons. Also the above Latin clip is a poor translation



I agree with him but everyone seems to think the Pope is calling Jesus a failure , mabey the Pope could have been more clear or CNN could have posted the entire speech uggggggggg
 
Pope Francis said:
And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus… and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross.
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I would say this is a truthful statement
Pope Francis said:
so everyone all over the internet is up in arms over the Popes statement :
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Well, those who have only listened have suffered a failure of oral communication and those who have read the statement and are still up in arms have suffered a failure of textual communication. It would appear, either way, those who are upset have failed to comprehend what was being said.

I'm sure sensationalized media reports haven't helped any.
 
revjohn said:

I would say this is a truthful statement



Well, those who have only listened have suffered a failure of oral communication and those who have read the statement and are still up in arms have suffered a failure of textual communication. It would appear, either way, those who are upset have failed to comprehend what was being said.

I'm sure sensationalized media reports haven't helped any.
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plus the christian grps, (not sure what there are called) who think that the Catholic church is the false church of Revelations
 
Jesus' death on the cross was his ministry ending in failure - he dead - his disciples scattered - after one betrayed him and one (perhaps more) denying him. Things had to end this way, I feel, as part of the downward path of Christ. Because he knew such defeat, I would add, we know that we can trust him to be with us when we encounter same.
 
Thus the light went out in GEO Gaia ? Could the stunned gather anything from shocking entertainment in the Romantic forum ... a Circe US?

Fringe wave ... out a' Eire ...
 
If Jesus' self-sacrifice seems to have been in vain so far, this does not necessarily mean it was a failure for all times. His example of sacrificing himself for his ideals or for humanity may yet bear fruit.
 
Humanly speaking, the cross as a failure sounds quite accurate to me. As a failure, the cross can then be looked upon as "foolishness," as Paul notes. But where the cross begins to have power is when one begins to look at it from a theological and spiritual perspective; when one starts to truly reflect on the meaning of agape love; when one begins to come to terms with the incarnation - that this is God experiencing death on the cross; when one is confronted by what comes next: resurrection! There are many theologies of the cross (substitutionary atonement being but one) but somewhere along the way all theologies of the cross should intersect with the theme of divine sacrifice and ultimate victory of some sort.
 
revsdd said:
Humanly speaking, the cross as a failure sounds quite accurate to me. As a failure, the cross can then be looked upon as "foolishness," as Paul notes. But where the cross begins to have power is when one begins to look at it from a theological and spiritual perspective; when one starts to truly reflect on the meaning of agape love; when one begins to come to terms with the incarnation - that this is God experiencing death on the cross; when one is confronted by what comes next: resurrection! There are many theologies of the cross (substitutionary atonement being but one) but somewhere along the way all theologies of the cross should intersect with the theme of divine sacrifice and ultimate victory of some sort.
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reminds me of these 2 verses

John 16:33 I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

John 14:30 I will not speak much more with you, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has nothing in Me;


At His death by the worlds standards it was a failure, but by Gods standards, not a shread of world power was found in Him
 
Always the opinion of literal interpretations when it may have been an incarnation ... appearing as it isn't ... and this they passed on to something else that the mortal can't imagine ... something just out of here?
 
Of course, as Luce pointed out above, Jesus' self-sacrifice as a metaphor for the need of the Ego or Lower Self to sacrifice itself so that a Higher or Divine Self might arise in its place is always valid.

The Phoenix renews her youth
Only when she is burnt, burnt alive, burnt down,
To hot and flocculent ash.

-D.H. Lawrence

But not even the progressive Pope Francis is progressive enough yo regard the Death-and-Resurrection as a Phoenix metaphor.
 
@Hermann,
Could such a thing light an abstract flame in someone's head country ... an obtuse zone for hiding lesser soles? Like that opposite sect in your bode an mode!

In story telling it is said there are 3 parts to the story:
  • Child
  • Adult
  • and grand parent
Who wanted Moor and thus offspring come "forth" (a' musing) in a time of denial that there are 6 sects hidden there ... and thus the light ... the 7th flame? Said to be holy in the state of mind ... heaven? A question in my terms as I'm told not to know ... upholding Northrup Fry's code of myth ... a displaced thought? They are virtuously unseen ...

Thus the subtle giggles ,,, an understanding, lesser, domain? Aum Bles ...
 
If anyone is interested...this article refers to Father Thomas Rosica who is an English language spokesman for the Vatican and happens to be the same priest who interviewed Stephen Colbert about his views on faith - obviously of the more progressive persuasion, who urges people to consider that the pope went around shaking hands and giving out rosaries and the encounter with Davis was no more than his encounters with all the several people there. (The priest who arranged the meeting however, is on the far right of these issues and knew that Davis' presence with the pope would make him look bad in the eyes of those who may otherwise respect him.) It was deception. Almost biblical.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ance-of-pope-franciss-meeting-with-kim-davis/
 
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Life's experience is complex... one must Passover the simple mein dah ... to get a grip of that beyond complexity ... sort of like a Nous city .. another Ji Roués a' lem ... the rule of the heart without sole?
 
When the Light goes out there ... there will be hanky Pan Key ... some call it uncertain conspiracy --A'palling stuff as befalls yah ... from those feeling higher and no sense of lesser portions ... stuff that supports the upper beef? In auld linguistics this was aD Libre ... a freed solarity, solemnity or solid Eire A' Tae ... not probable within anti-social realms ... cosmological constant as where can Light go to get beyond the infinite ... or even half that considering those with half clues about the pariah of the brae 'n ... a spot to place loose metaphysical thin-guise ... a vale over something else again? Buckets full ... can giggles fly? :ROFLMAO: ... Thus th' under power rolls ... earth shaken events?:barefoot:
 
Never tell a truth when in company of general authorities that believe there is nothing beyond what they know to be virtual truth ... a conspiracy? The plot is vast ...
 
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