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Lack of responsibility being bad for the greater good ... what a rare thought! Pragmatism personified and slaughtered ...
 
Northwind said:
Mike Harris, former premiere of Ontario is involved in running Chartwell.
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Chartwell is a bad egg, to be sure. Not sure who owns that place in Barrie. There's a couple that we work with that seem to be more our mentality.
Pinga said:
if you have the funds/resources
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That's the big "if" and why I think adding longterm and home care to Medicare is a necessity. But not just for funding, it also needs to be about ensuring quality.

Right now, if you have the money, there are ways to get both faster and with better quality than someone who is relying on the LHINs to provide it.

The home care company I used to provide IT support for was happily taking private pay patients over and above their LHIN (CCAC in those days) -funded business and those people didn't have to go through the LHINs funding limits and approval processes. They might even be doing it over and above what was funded by the CCAC.
 
Northwind said:
If a business model doesn't include proper wages for employees and the ability to provide a quality service, then the business shouldn't exist.
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I take to heart Pinga's mention of LBMuskoka, but when I read your quote, all I could think of was that treating LTC of our elders, who should be our venerated citizens, like "what kind of meal can you afford on your income?" seems wrong.

Because as soon as LTC is a "business model" not a unified part of universal health care from cradle to grave, then it's like, "well, you can only afford McDonald's, where the staff are paid minimum wage, given no benefits, nor sick leave, no pension and the food will kill you fast if you eat it every day" while Mary over there "can afford a personal chef paid a very competitive wage, including various benefits and unlimited access to the finest of ingredients".
 
Note: Chartwell's that i know are not long-term care homes, they are retirement homes. Curious if that is the norm in other places. Retirement homes are significantly different than LTC, and tend to take people at high cost with differeing levels of care - from apartment style living to supported living.
 
Pinga said:
Note: Chartwell's that i know are not long-term care homes, they are retirement homes. Curious if that is the norm in other places. Retirement homes are significantly different than LTC, and tend to take people at high cost with differeing levels of care - from apartment style living to supported living.
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I think they have both around here but I'd have to confirm.

BetteTheRed said:
Meadow Park is the Jarlette home in London.
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Not seeing a great resume building for these people. That one had an outbreak recently, too.
 
I think that the for profit isn’t the total issue. It is supervision, monitoring and shutting down poor homes.
but i agree that what works in general in business is competition. You don’t like Sears, you shop at Eatone, to use an old example. That’s competition

but in LTC homes, at least in Ontario, there is a waiting list of around six months. So there is no competition. When a bed opens up, someone is shunted in, whether it is a good home or a fire trap. In Quebec they could not even mandate sprinkler systems, not sure if that got corrected

homes hire part time staff so they don’t have full time employees requiring benefits, sick time, vacation time........ so workers end up doing work in three or so places to make a full time wage. The wages themselves are minimal.
the work requires close contact. Bed baths, toileting, feeding, dressing. Activities that put you face to face. And they then carry infections with them. Covid this year, influenza other years

then the country didn’t have enough PPE. Workers were using what was available to protect themselves. Donning it and going room to room. Instead of donning it to enter a room and the discarding

most staff that I have met over the years are caring , loving people. Attempting to do more than they have time for

the fact that Canada leads the world in deaths in LTC shows us that we have failed miserably. All levels of government own it. They should have and could still have collaborated to figure out a way to handle it. i suspect once we are through this , new rules about single rooms and levels of staffing will cause some changes. Sadly too late for almost 20,000 people and families
 
Checked Chartwell's site. They have one LTC in London and couple more nearby (Aylmer and Parkhill). Rest are retirement or assisted living.
 
The Chartwell near me is LTC. It has recently had a small outbreak.

Edit: I looked it up and it is LTC. It says it has a view of the Georgia Strait. That's interesting because there's a mall and stuff between it and the strait. Maybe there's a view from the roof.
 
Lastpointe said:
I think that the for profit isn’t the total issue. It is supervision, monitoring and shutting down poor homes.
but i agree that what works in general in business is competition. You don’t like Sears, you shop at Eatins, to use an old example. That’s competition

but in LTC homes, at least in Ontario, there is a waiting list of around six months. So there is no competition. When a bed opens up, someone is shunted in, whether it is a good home or a fire trap. In Quebec they chold the even mandate sprinkler systems, not sure if that got corrected

homes hire part time staff so they don’t have full time employees requiring benefits, sick time, vacation time........ so workers end up doing work in three or so places to make a full time wage. The wages themselves are minimal.
the work requires close contact. Bed baths, toileting, feeding, dressing. Activities that put you face to face

then the country didn’t have enough PPE. Workers were using what was available to protect themselves. Donning it and going room to room. Instead of donning it to enter a room and the discarding

most staff that I have met over the years are caring , loving people. Attempting to do more than they have time for

the fact that Canada leads the world in deaths in LTC shows us that we have failed miserably. All levels of government own it. They should have and could still have collaborated to figure out a way to handle it. i suspect once we are through this , new rules about single rooms and levels of staffing will cause some changes. Sadly too late for almost 20,000 people and families
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When I decided to bring myself out of hibernation and go back to work, one of the places I applied, asked as their first question what are my concerns about working in LTC......I mentioned I would want to know that there are sufficient PPE on the premises. I was told they follow the health unit's lead as to what is now required. That included providing two masks per day per nurses and health care workers. So I mentioned that I would probably wear goggles and provide myself with more masks anyway and change them often as I enter and leave each room. The interview ended after this one and only question and I was told that I would not be hired. Interesting huh?
Also 2 weeks later that facility had 96 cases of Covid including staff.
 
Northwind, one of my challenges of Ford is that he spoke when the PH should have.
I understand that there are differences in opinion. For example, some follow the philosophy that the buck stops here, so i should state the message. Others believe that the PH should, as they are the scientists. Ford fit somewhere in the middle. He listened, and i think took the advice of PH, but, was the messenger.
 
Pinga, When I said the buck stops here for Trudeau I wasn’t at all saying he should be the spokesman

but as the top dog, he has to sign off in the plans. He is the top decision maker. Particularity in his government where he and the PMO seem to make all the decisions. He has to own the good and the bad.

I have thought that Ford did not a bad job at communicating particularly at the beginning. I always watch the news conferences led by the doctors and I have thought they were pretty complete

where he and Trudeau and everyone else fall down is how to implement things. What restrictions to impose......

for instance. There has been a massive out break in the Canada post sorting plant in Mississauga. Union leaders blatantly saying members weren’t following rules but that is managements fault for not enforcing.......

meanwhile the Mail is being sorted and the plant is working

so that gets compared to restaurants, where they have been no documented cases of transmission but they are closed

the little shops closed but the Walmart’s and big boxes open.

i don’t know that there is a good solution. We obviously need to buy food, gas, hardware things to fix our homes......... we don’t need restaurants but we do need mail. But i can also see the inequity. my Children both have many friends who work in hospitality via restaurants, or gyms or personal training. All these young people are frustrated, out of work,

governments will take heat over the mistakes, as they should. Reports will be written as they were after SARS. Mistakes noted. Will lessons be learned?

for me, my relatives in Croatia are all vaccinated and skiing. My friends in Florida are all vaccinated and golfing
us, not so much
 
Lastpointe said:
but as the top dog, he has to sign off in the plans. He is the top decision maker.
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Only in areas of federal jurisdiction.

Health care is not one of those. He has work with the provinces and they have the final say. Including public health. So says our constitution.

So are all the closing decisions you list except Canada Post (and they are a crown corporation so should be arms length from the government) since business regulation outside a few very specialized areas are provincial jurisdiction.

Trudeau has to make decisions in the areas where he has authority to do so and then should be trying to pull the provinces, territories, and indigenous nations together in the areas he does not. He has done badly in the latter and just okay in the former.

But Ford has to shoulder as much blame as Trudeau. The buck stops in his office for all those things that are provincial jurisdiction, like the state of longterm care. If Trudeau goes down over the pandemic, so should Ford. Both are equally to blame for the failings and equally to praise in the areas where things have gone well.
 
Yes. Provinces shoulder the blame for issues. Never said they didn’t

but Trudeau had lots of options. Last January, a frigging year ago, he could have convened an emergency meeting. How are we to handle this crisis. Work together. Find out where w are lacking. Call in the army. Ensure we had appropriate PPE. Evoke the emergency measures act........

he didn’t. He should have. Governments across the country were relying on health Canada to chart the path forward. Provincial governments run the hospitals on money doled out by the federal government. Money was needed. Plans were needed. Who had access to the WHO. Who had the world view.

to look at it another way?

what things did Trudeau do right?

for start

he recognized that people were going to be laid off and they provided money. Confusing programs and lots of people took the money that didn’t qualify. But they were quick off the bat to provide money

they were slow to provide business money. If you remember , at first they were going to pay 10% of salary. That was such a lousy idea, after tone of reports, articles and complaints, that got raised

they put the army to work in Quebec when asked. Sadly much to late

they sort of closed the USA border

they belatedly did advise wearing masks

they created a Covid app that very few people downloaded so I doubt it is ever useful. I downloaded it, updated it daily for about a month and stopped

So I am not saying they didn’t do some things right. Just they missed the boat and they own their mistakes As do the provinces.


other things?
 
Actualy, Lastpointe, the army and the reserves were very much called into action, at some expense, last spring. My son was one of those who was working at quarantine centres and was gone for 3 months. The quarantines were a federal item, and were under federal control, so army could go in.

Again, they cannot throw the army into provinces that don't ask for them. If you want to see a real outrage, send the armed forces into Quebec without being asked.

The app is on my phone. Your app is on your phone. You likely are not encountering people with exposure. Are you upset that you haven't encountered anyone with exposure?
 
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