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Lastpointe said:
as I see it masks are an attempt to allow business to get back to work while still trying to prevent the spread of the virus. I don’t see that as a bad thing. Not sure why rita does?
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Masks are just a tool to control. Businesses are complying with mask mandates but still they are being shut down ... now it is the testdemic ... obviously masks have not worked ... yet everyone insists that we should continue wearing them ... for what reason I do not know. As you said ... I do not have to go into a store that has been forced to make a show of compliance to mask mandates in order to keep their business open and if I choose to do so ... I do not have to wear a mask so masking is no longer an issue for me the consumer. Done. Over. I am way beyond masks and that everyone here chooses to ignore the bigger issues in favor of labeling everyone that is protesting as an anti-masker is just ridiculous. It has already been established that no one can 'legally' force me to wear a mask. I will wear one where I deem it a kindness to the local business that I choose to support. Brainwashing children into wearing a mask is an issue for me personally and I will stand with all those that oppose this practice - it is child abuse psychologically and biologically.

I think the rest of your post (other than more testing) is in line with what I am observing as a tragic consequence of 'blind' leaders following 'blind' leaders in a 'ring around the rosey' idiocracy.
 
But people are not masking and distancing when they should be. I know my daughter has been fairly non-compliant; her bubble is pretty flexible. I am have a brother-in-law-type who travels to and from Manitoba and never self-isolates. Half the people in the grocery store with masks on have their noses hanging out. There have been a quarter of a million deaths in the U.S.

And yeah, the guidelines changed. January this was brand new. It is only November, which is a MINISCULE amount of time to conduct any kind of research on any kind of infection. And is it bad that in an effort to retain PPE for front line medical workers, that their use in those contexts was prioritized?

You can criticize until you're blue in the face, but I see the Canadian effort as on par with the BEST reactions in the world.
 
Ritafee said:
Masks are just a tool to control. Businesses are complying with mask mandates but still they are being shut down ... now it is the testdemic ... obviously masks have not worked ... yet everyone insists that we should continue wearing them ... for what reason I do not know. As you said ... I do not have to go into a store that has been forced to make a show of compliance to mask mandates in order to keep their business open and if I choose to do so ... I do not have to wear a mask so masking is no longer an issue for me the consumer. Done. Over. I am way beyond masks and that everyone here chooses to ignore the bigger issues in favor of labeling everyone that is protesting as an anti-masker is just ridiculous. It has already been established that no one can 'legally' force me to wear a mask. I will wear one where I deem it a kindness to the local business that I choose to support. Brainwashing children into wearing a mask is an issue for me personally and I will stand with all those that oppose this practice - it is child abuse psychologically and biologically.

I think the rest of your post (other than more testing) is in line with what I am observing as a tragic consequence of 'blind' leaders following 'blind' leaders in a 'ring around the rosey' idiocracy.
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Isn't ring around the rosey (the story behind the rhyme) about people catching a serious infection and dying?
 
Sorry, but we could learn a few lessons from Korea. Korea weathered the first wave without an actual lockdown and still hasn't had a second. Widespread testing and tracing and people who actually mask and isolate when told helps a lot.

Ditto China but they are an autocracy so not really comparable. In the end, a well-run autocracy has more options than a democracy for dealing with a crisis.

And then there's New Zealand, though they benefit from being a fairly small chain of islands with no land borders. Same for Japan. Still, I am sure we could learn some lessons there.

Saying we aren't as bad as the US or Italy is still not saying we are the best. We could have done better and still could.

Let's start with shutting down the health intelligence unit. Had that been functioning and been listened to, we could have started responding in December even.
 

MSN

www.msn.com

Lockdowns may cause short-term difficulties - but the results speak for themselves.

1. Wear a mask if you can't social distance.
2. Have good tracing systems operating.
3. I f the tracing can't keep up with the cases - lockdown.

Something we pragmatic Aussies learnt from our Asian neighbours.........
 
PilgrimsProgress said:
Lockdowns may cause short-term difficulties - but the results speak for themselves.
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There's growing concern about the toll this has taken on the mental health of Victorians, with the Prime Minister warning (October 27th) that the impacts will be felt for years to come.

Demand for counselling services in Victoria has surged in recent weeks, with beyond blue recording a a 67 per cent increase in calls during the four weeks to October 4 compared to the same period last year.

Meanwhile, Kids Helpline has had a 61 per cent increase.

Guest:

Dr Ruth Vine is the Deputy Chief Medical Officer for Mental Health

www.abc.net.au

Melbourne lockdown expected to have long-term effects on mental health - ABC listen

There's growing concern about the toll lockdown has taken on the mental health of Victorians, with the Prime Minister warning yesterday that the impacts will be felt for years to come.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
 
PilgrimsProgress said:

MSN

www.msn.com

Lockdowns may cause short-term difficulties - but the results speak for themselves.

1. Wear a mask if you can't social distance.
2. Have good tracing systems operating.
3. I f the tracing can't keep up with the cases - lockdown.

Something we pragmatic Aussies learnt from our Asian neighbours.........
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Why not restrictions before a full lockdown? Less deaths due to other causes.
I see no reason to stop children from going outside to play, especially if distancing from other cohorts. Picking up food from a restaurant, whether curbside or drive thru is very low risk, ditto for curbside pickups at stores, etc.
I think it's also reasonable to let people get the groceries that they want, limiting numbers in stores.
Going for a walk in a non-crowded area doesn't seem like it would contribute to spread.
 
Rita, Jesus Murphy, use your noggin, please.

One can recover from a mental health crisis occasioned by isolation. One cannot recover from death. I know a fair bit about LTC facilities, because I have quite a few friends in the system, as both staff and clients. They are balancing the emotional needs of their clients with the need for safety from death in a vulnerable population as well as they can. This is a system that deals with yearly, repeated lockdowns over influenza cases.

And the broader society is trying to do the same thing, largely voluntarily. And largely by pretty poorly paid front-line workers, like PSWs and store clerks.

And people with mental health problems, like people with physical health problems, are probably better served if they exist in a relationship. But not everyone has the relationship tools to do so, particularly the mentally ill.

I'm not even sure what you're yarning on about. What work do you do to make sure that the mentally ill in your community are appropriately supported in isolation? I call an old guy a couple/three times a week to touch base, assure him that he is not alone, etc.

Sometimes you have to prioritize the problems within the predicament, and right now, it seems to me that keeping people alive, by gentle, useful methods (a simple cloth barrier between you and others, a commitment to physical distancing outside of your bubble (and my bubble is a solo bubble) is the wisest course to ensure the greater safety of the community (the 'responsibility' approach) Versus metaphorical flailing around complaining about losses of individual 'rights/freedoms'.
 
Ritafee said:
We agree on that.
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No, we don't. When I'm faced with a predicament comprising a bunch of problems, I attempt to identify the current/worst threat facing my immediate 'community' and focus my attention on that. I personally follow health unit guidelines. I mask at work, and in church, distance appropriately.
 
Sometimes you have to prioritize the problems within the predicament ... I agree.

Quality of life is my first priority ... all for one and one for all.
 
So, if it comes to quality of life, you consider vulnerable people to be "disposable"?

This, to me, is what I am hearing? What am I misinterpreting?
 
BetteTheRed said:
So, if it comes to quality of life, you consider vulnerable people to be "disposable"?
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What is a vulnerable person? How well did we protect the vulnerable before this 'predicament'?
What improvements have been made to protect vulnerable people since?
What percentage of the deaths 'with' covid were among the vulnerable people that might not have lived much longer regardless and would not have had to die alone?
 
BetteTheRed said:
So, if it comes to quality of life, you consider vulnerable people to be "disposable"?

This, to me, is what I am hearing? What am I misinterpreting?
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Children are the most vulnerable people globally.

Millions of children are at risk of becoming the collateral victims of this prolonged 'testdemic'.

What am I misinterpreting?
 
Wyrd response. Largely, world-wide, children's education is being prioritized. The well-being of the isolated seniors, not so much.
 
Bluntly, your "senior" is dead, you have grands. You are, predictably, focusing on your own present needs. I have no elders, no grands, I can be a bit more dispassionate.
 
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