Novel Coronavirus

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Kimmio Laughterlove said:
It seems, in most places, the laws are only punitive if people are a**holes about following recommendations.

For example, I did not know that city playgrounds were voluntarily closed...they did not have to and it was not enforceable. But the equipment is not in use. If people were dissing the recommendations and acting as if nothing had changed, then they may have had to make it an enforceable closure with fines. Some grown-ups insist on acting like bullheaded teenagers through this and those are the ones who need rules. I was one earlier on, complaining - I thought the measures were too much - but I've changed my mind. Our measures and voluntary compliance has kept cases down.
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I think seeing what happened in NYC changed my mind.
 
Northwind said:
And you say you don't believe conspiracy theories?
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As I have mentioned here many times 'believe' is a word that I try to avoid.

As reference to what I understand as theory around conspiracy:

A conspiracy is an agreement or plan, made between two or more people, to engage in an 'immoral' act, to obtain an 'immoral' objective, or to deprive other persons of a 'moral' right.

A conspiracy may be engaged in to move a plan forward legally or illegally with each person involved aware of his or her part.

It is not necessary for each person involved in a conspiracy to engage in – or even be aware of – each stage or act involved in gaining the objective.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
voluntary compliance has kept cases down.
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I am voluntarily complying with any 'rules' that I am aware of and do not violate my sense of integrity. Common sense?

I have personally not yet heard of there being uncalled for punitive measures taken against anyone that I know of if they have 'innocently' broken with the now legally enforceable new protocols.

That is not to say that I am confident that it has not happened or will not be happening.

I base that on the sound logic that there have always been those - even if they are few - given the power to punish through legal venue with immunity from prosecution - find 'delight' in abusing that power.

To be openly defiant just for the sake of being defiant is not something that I condone.

Non violent protest against immoral legislation or direct action in opposition to unjust laws - that I condone.
 
This weekend in London there were 132 warnings and only 1 charge (to a guy who scaled a fence around a locked soccer field, so definitely not just a casual walk through a park) so I don't think anyone is going out of their way to fine people here. And that's how it should go. Charges should be reserved for the most egregious cases where people obviously went out of their way to violate the rules.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
I trust what's being said by people on the ground. Didn't you post about a front line ER Doctor in NYC (not the Bakersfield pair) giving his account about ventilator use, via a homemade video? His concerns are being taken seriously.
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I did post about the ER Doctor ... because I trusted my intuition that he sincerely was doing what he thought was right by 'skirting the system' to get his message out and making his own video without implicating anyone else. It was not well received here in the WC2 initially ... partially I am sure because I was the one posting it :censored: The thing with information is - in my humble opinion - don't shoot the messenger before discerning the context of the message.
 
Mrs.Anteater said:
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The lab thing I wouldn't push to a conspiracy theory so much. If it was an accidental exposure (and I agree, it is unlikely that was the caused based on what we see), I don't see a 'conspiracy' in that. It was known China was doing research with coronaviruses and didn''t have the best protocols in place.
Conspiracy to me would be intentionally creating someone that would infect humans and/or intentionally releasing it into the population.
 
Northwind said:
Fake news? :unsure:
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Fake news is a meaningless term to my way of thinking.
Calls to 'do something' about fake news has really only served to make things worse.
Like conspiracy theory, fake news is just another non definitive term that too many people think they are 'legitimately' allowed to throw out as an excuse to mock or ignore any news or news organizations they are preemptively unwilling to examine fairly.
 
Northwind said:
Then let me ask another way. Is what is happening in NYC fabricated?
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I don't think so but I am not an eyewitness so have to rely on hearsay.

I tend like @kimmio said earlier to 'trust some sources more than others' ... as I am sure you do also.

I prefer front line testimonies from people in the fray ... especially the ones that speak out even if it is not profitable or might be dangerous to their own well being - whistle blower types.

Independent investigative journalists are a preference of mine as well - especially the ones that are banned from 'mainstream media'.

I do not think that the 'sickness' itself is a hoax ... significant numbers of people are really dying and whatever it is ... it seems to be extremely contagious.

I cannot discount that the numbers are being manipulated to suit an agenda that has been in place for many years just waiting for the right crisis to further it's objectives.

I am not theorizing about this ... the objectives are laid out in numerous publicly available certified documents that I have referenced over and again.

There is an agenda ... whether or not the majority of people are willing to be complicit with it is the experiment in progress right now.

This 'pandemic' seems to be the key to compliance at a level that 2 months ago would have been unimaginable for most of us.

But yet here we are ... hoping that we are doing the right thing but not at all sure of it's 'good' outcome.
 
Journalist Matt Taibbi recently wrote an excellent essay about the dangers inherent in the increased demand we’ve been seeing for more censorship and deplatforming during the coronavirus pandemic, correctly arguing that more authoritarian control over the ideas people are allowed to discuss is vastly more dangerous than the ideas themselves.

“The people who want to add a censorship regime to a health crisis are more dangerous and more stupid by leaps and bounds than a president who tells people to inject disinfectant,” Taibbi writes. “It’s astonishing that they don’t see this.”
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“Instead of asking calmly if hydroxychloroquine works, or if the less restrictive Swedish crisis response has merit, or questioning why certain statistical assumptions about the seriousness of the crisis might have been off, we’re denouncing the questions themselves as infamous,” says Taibbi.
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