Novel Coronavirus

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

That is an essential service. You wouldn’t want the health system dealing with all the alcoholics going on withdrawal.

You don't want people sitting at home with their kids, having mental health issues, and getting drunk, either. No wonder domestic abuse is going up.
It should be limited to alcoholics, perhaps, if it's essential for them. There are lots of addictions to withdrawal from. Seeing other people is not an addiction though, is it? Children out playing, staying active and safe from harm in their own homes is not an addiction.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

The BC Provincial Health Officer, Bonnie Henry, has a ton of experience in the area of pandemics. She really is a top expert in this very issue. In 2000 she worked for WHO on the Ebola crisis in Uganda, and several epidemics closer to home. Her career is fully outlined here and it's impressive. And so far she is resisting calls for banning/ policing people using parks like Ontario has.

Bonnie Henry - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Luce NDs]

Really how do we expect to control things we don't know without knowledge ... factors denied in the courts of power!

Some say chaos descends like a ball from powerfully empty places ... polyanna intercedes ...

 

[Northwind]

And people are still going to the liquor store everyday. That's not an essential service...but sales are up 40%.

Perspective is needed.

Actually there is a good argument for keeping liquor stores open. There's a significant portion of our population who are physically dependent on alcohol. Withdrawal from alcohol is life threatening. The health system does not have the additional resources to deal with that fall out right now. Many comments about liquor stores being open are moral based. Moral judgment isn't necessary right now. Perspective is needed indeed

 

[Luce NDs]

Perspective ... what an odd thing in the blind faith theology!

Dan Brown wrote of that in The Last Symbol! Metaphorically of course ... one is not supposed know these things I've been told ...

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Actually there is a good argument for keeping liquor stores open. There's a significant portion of our population who are physically dependent on alcohol. Withdrawal from alcohol is life threatening. The health system does not have the additional resources to deal with that fall out right now. Many comments about liquor stores being open are moral based. Moral judgment isn't necessary right now. Perspective is needed indeed

What about domestic abuse and child abuse cases up? No connection? Mental health? People drinking more? Will alcoholism increase? Unsafe homes and unreported child abuse is a danger with having kids at home in isolation with drinking parents - parents fighting, taking it out on kids - even if they were not alcoholics before, stress is high, mental health is teetering for a lot of people, and nobody to keep an eye out like before. Are home visits still being done by social workers?

 

[Northwind]

Of course those are a big concern. I believe social workers are still an essential service. Domestic violence is related to more than just alcohol abuse. I'd be more concerned about the money issues and related stressors than alcohol at this point.

 

[Ritafee]

The health system does not have the additional resources to deal with that fall out right now. Many comments about liquor stores being open are moral based. Moral judgment isn't necessary right now.

Seems the health system never did have the 'additional' resources ... dealing with the fall out of that has never been a profitable priority for the system. I seem to recall that the addictions of one of the Fords afforded him 'exclusive' and 'very costly' priority in securing treatment ... has that 'moral' judgment been waived in lieu of the 'virus' - Money no longer talks in the 'health' system?

 

[jimkenney12]

First time on in over a month. I did not read the previous pages. For decades under neo-liberalism, governments have been cutting public services including health as thin as they can, focused on the minimum needed to deal with current circumstances. This virus has revealed the folly of not seeking robustness in public services. As an Albertan now living in Ontario, I came with trepidation for what life under Ford would be like, and it is challenging. My wife has complex health issues and it will probably be 2 years or more until she will get a GP. However, in this crisis, Ford has shown himself to be a much better leader than Jason Kenney, whom I have always despised. My big complaint with the coverage of Covid-19 is the lack of news in the main media about what is happening elsewhere in terms of wars, natural disasters, and significant good news. I am impressed with the people in Deep River: everyone is practicing physical distancing, and there seems to be more calmness than fear. We have been phoning our members, and everybody seems prepared to wait this out.

 

[Mendalla]

My wife has complex health issues and it will probably be 2 years or more until she will get a GP.

That's hardly Ford's problem. I only have a family doc because my wife's doc agreed to take me when I moved here from Hamilton and that was under Harris. Now he's edging towards retirement so we may have to find someone again if we don't like the guy he's got lined up to take over his patient base. AFAIK, it hasn't improved since then under anyone.

For decades under neo-liberalism, governments have been cutting public services including health as thin as they can, focused on the minimum needed to deal with current circumstances. This virus has revealed the folly of not seeking robustness in public services.

Amen. Only a year or two ago, Ford was cutting funding to public health. Now we're relying on them. If that doesn't show him what was wrong with his old policies, nothing will.

 

[Ritafee]

I'd be more concerned about the money issues and related stressors

Capitalism is the virus ... and it has infected every aspect of this 'situation' that we now find ourselves in.

The priority of the capitalists:
to get the money machine going again,
to take full advantage of the crisis in the name of profit, and
to defend their well-staked financial turf from any reforms that may be proposed in the aftermath.

Worker safety, insurance coverage and costs, medical preparedness, vital supplies and even 'bills' intended to save us all from some final financial calamity: all have been perverted and disrupted by the profit motive that can never satisfied.

We are in the midst of the 'Greatest Depression' ... prisoners of our own device?

 

[Northwind]

I agree with @jimkenney12 (hi Jim!) and @Ritafee We are seeing the effects of neoliberal policies that measured by dollars and cents rather than dollars and sense. Our health care has been cut to the bone so now they have to do major shuffling in order to manage the possible effects of this virus. Certainly shuffling would need to happen in a healthy system. It's even more necessary in a system that has been systematically dismantled over the past 20 or so years in particular. I found myself shocked to be impressed by what I've seen of Ford lately.

 

[Northwind]

Capitalism is the virus ... and it has infected every aspect of this 'situation' that we now find ourselves in.

I agree. And this virus has revealed how Toxic Capitalism is never good.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Of course those are a big concern. I believe social workers are still an essential service. Domestic violence is related to more than just alcohol abuse. I'd be more concerned about the money issues and related stressors than alcohol at this point.

They often go together, don't they - are common triggers for beginning to drink heavily?

There will be fewer reports with kids locked in and teachers and other parents not seeing them in person. Usually isolation is one of the signs of abuse. Now it's enforced isolation.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Actually there is a good argument for keeping liquor stores open. There's a significant portion of our population who are physically dependent on alcohol. Withdrawal from alcohol is life threatening. The health system does not have the additional resources to deal with that fall out right now. Many comments about liquor stores being open are moral based. Moral judgment isn't necessary right now. Perspective is needed indeed

Sort of. It's not the best excuse though. It means that Canadians have a big alcohol abuse problem going unaddressed. If they can restrict everything else they can restrict that to limited circumstances, too, if they wanted to.

 

[Ritafee]

Consumers will spend on Alcohol and Tobacco ... locked down stocked down or barrelled down.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Consumers will spend on Alcohol and Tobacco ... locked down stocked down or barrelled down.

True. But the powers that be already placed severe restrictions, penalties, and severe price hikes on tobacco before covid. No deterrents for alcohol...which is a public health problem...in fact, they seem to be celebrating the business boost.

 

[Northwind]

It's not an excuse. It's a legitimate concern. Most addicts I know or knew did not choose to be in the mess they're in. If this were about choice, no one would be an addict.

 

[Northwind]

True. But the powers that be already placed severe restrictions, penalties, and severe price hikes on tobacco before covid. No deterrents for alcohol...in fact, they seem to be celebrating the business boost.

And when they put harsher penalties and restrictions on tobacco products in Ontario, people still got it. A Mohawk community that is in New York, Ontario and Quebec had a great business going. Also, prohibition did not work. Historically, trying to prohibit alcohol and tobacco fails. Addicts will get their drug of choice. If alcoholics can't get alcohol they will go to rubbing alcohol, mouthwash and other non-beverage forms of alcohol.

 

[ChemGal]

True. But the powers that be already placed severe restrictions, penalties, and severe price hikes on tobacco before covid. No deterrents for alcohol...which is a public health problem...in fact, they seem to be celebrating the business boost.

Uh what? There are more places one can smoke legally than drink. Both have added taxes.