My Weekly Devotional

[Waterfall]

Unitarians were a Christian movement in the period I'm talking about. Theologically, unitarianism is simply Christianity without the Trinity. The more humanist movement that led to modern UU'ism came in the twentieth century, mostly during and after WWII.

So Jesus was just a man according to UU's right? Or do you believe we are all divine and we all become part of God when we die?

 

[Mendalla]

So Jesus was just a man according to UU's right? Or do you believe we are all divine and we all become part of God when we die?

As I have said before, there is no one "UU" understanding of Jesus, God, or anything metaphysical. There are UUs who think like chansen and deny the existence of both God and Jesus. There are UUs who think like paradox3 and believe in Jesus as a preacher/prophet but are agnostic or atheist on God. There are UUs who believe Jesus was a special messenger from God, but not God Incarnate. There are UUs who believe in a divine Jesus. We do not have a "doctrine" about Jesus in our tradition nor do we have one about "God". Our 4th principle calls for a "free and responsible search for truth and meaning" and the point of that is to NOT have specific metaphysical doctrines.

However, if you go back the era when the North American Unitarian movement began in various Protestant churches, yes, that's largely where they came down. Jesus was a man, perhaps very connected to God, but not an incarnate deity.

 

[GeoFee]

Hi Jae,

Constantine and the Bishops of Rome deeply compromised the gospels and their contextual narratives. They took the living letters by which inspiration and encouragement might be obtained and turned them to doctrines carved in stone. Saying that acceptance of these doctrines was necessary to inclusion in the household of God. I see the relationship of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit in the gospels and the epistles. I do not hold to any doctrine of the trinity. Considering it to be a graven image and antithetic to the hope expressed in the gospel, as in ancient Israel.

We are strong when we engage our diverse perspectives. Each sharpening the critical capacity of the other by challenge and affirmation, as a rabbinic educator would do. They will not know we are followers of Jesus by our fighting over correct doctrine. They will know we are followers of Jesus by our loving service to the lost, the broken and the oppressed.

George

 

[Luce NDs]

In one consuming thought about eternal restrictions ... it is in this we are encapsulated or Jaerd with the black and white enigma ... one when light is approaching, the other when it is departing and allowing rest from your personally contained considerations ... and night you thoughts are plunder by those from out there and beyond as they fall to their chores in the dark ... and you will hardly notice ... except for some heavy aspirations, gasps and deep breaths in the night ... held until expiration?

Some define there divinations as part of the red-blue shift patterns ... ess about wee flashes way out there in the dark field where determined thoughts hide undetected by mortals ... and so they gho st ... essentially, or in essence! Sufficiently transparent that some can't see "M" ... wow!

 

[Luce NDs]

Without a god doctrine does God remain as indeterminate floating logos, or logic working it sway out of a mortal failure to be cognizant of eternal enlightenment?

Sol boggling event for those stuck on institutionalization of power to telling Gnostics to go to 'eLLe and they did with burning questions about indeterminate and irrational attributes ... to know the adequate question is a gnostic enigma ... given the expanse of the concern ...

 

[airclean33]

Hi Jae,

Constantine and the Bishops of Rome deeply compromised the gospels and their contextual narratives. They took the living letters by which inspiration and encouragement might be obtained and turned them to doctrines carved in stone. Saying that acceptance of these doctrines was necessary to inclusion in the household of God. I see the relationship of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit in the gospels and the epistles. I do not hold to any doctrine of the trinity. Considering it to be a graven image and antithetic to the hope expressed in the gospel, as in ancient Israel.

We are strong when we engage our diverse perspectives. Each sharpening the critical capacity of the other by challenge and affirmation, as a rabbinic educator would do. They will not know we are followers of Jesus by our fighting over correct doctrine. They will know we are followers of Jesus by our loving service to the lost, the broken and the oppressed.


George

--Hi George , I am not sure why you think Jesus said . It is the Love we feel for the World, of course we do. These verse seem to say different.


Zec 8:17do not devise evil in your hearts against one another, and love no false oath, for all these things I hate, says the LORD."

Gal 5:13For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love be servants of one another.

2Th 1:3We are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, as is fitting, because your faith is growing abundantly, and the love of every one of you for one another is increasing.

1Pe 1:22Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere love of the brethren, love one another earnestly from the heart.

1Pe 4:8Above all hold unfailing your love for one another, since love covers a multitude of sins.

 

[revsdd]

I have a question, if we approach God through Jesus and God approaches us through Jesus, Is Jesus still considered part of the trinity now that he has ascended? I know we refer to the Father, Son and the HS as one but Is there a reason to have separate names since Jesus is now in "heaven" and even more so ONE, wouldn't it just be one big entity. Didn't Jesus come to earth to reveal a part of God to us but is that still required because he is now visually as invisible to us now as God is to us? So why the separation unless we're speaking about history and honouring those teachings that were brought to us 2000 years ago? Hope you understand what I'm getting at.

Your question about the trinity is a good one. I do not hold to the traditional, orthodox view of the trinity. (ie, One God in Three Persons.) That's a doctrinal statement not specifically laid out in the Scriptures. Paul seems to allude to the idea in some of his writings when he uses "Spirit of God" and "Spirit of Christ" pretty much interchangeably. Jesus does command baptism "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" and the New Testament in several passages portrays Jesus as the object of worship. But I tend not to get into debates about the specifics of the trinity because I think it's a fool's game. For me, what matters is what the trinity is trying to symbolically represent. It does represent a God for whom relationship is a part of the divine nature, and who therefore seeks relationship. As a firm believer in the divine incarnation in Jesus, for me the trinity also states explicitly that Jesus = God. "I and the Father are one." But while I would call myself trinitarian because I value the imagery and understand it symbolically, as I said I'm not hung up on the concept of "One God in Three Persons." Indeed, I think that when we believe we've captured perfectly the very nature of God in a doctrinal statement, we're perilously close to a form of idolatry.

 

[Waterfall]

Your question about the trinity is a good one. I do not hold to the traditional, orthodox view of the trinity. (ie, One God in Three Persons.) That's a doctrinal statement not specifically laid out in the Scriptures. Paul seems to allude to the idea in some of his writings when he uses "Spirit of God" and "Spirit of Christ" pretty much interchangeably. Jesus does command baptism "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" and the New Testament in several passages portrays Jesus as the object of worship. But I tend not to get into debates about the specifics of the trinity because I think it's a fool's game. For me, what matters is what the trinity is trying to symbolically represent. It does represent a God for whom relationship is a part of the divine nature, and who therefore seeks relationship. As a firm believer in the divine incarnation in Jesus, for me the trinity also states explicitly that Jesus = God. "I and the Father are one." But while I would call myself trinitarian because I value the imagery and understand it symbolically, as I said I'm not hung up on the concept of "One God in Three Persons." Indeed, I think that when we believe we've captured perfectly the very nature of God in a doctrinal statement, we're perilously close to a form of idolatry.

Thank you, that helped.

 

[airclean33]

Your question about the trinity is a good one. I do not hold to the traditional, orthodox view of the trinity. (ie, One God in Three Persons.) That's a doctrinal statement not specifically laid out in the Scriptures. Paul seems to allude to the idea in some of his writings when he uses "Spirit of God" and "Spirit of Christ" pretty much interchangeably. Jesus does command baptism "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" and the New Testament in several passages portrays Jesus as the object of worship. But I tend not to get into debates about the specifics of the trinity because I think it's a fool's game. For me, what matters is what the trinity is trying to symbolically represent. It does represent a God for whom relationship is a part of the divine nature, and who therefore seeks relationship. As a firm believer in the divine incarnation in Jesus, for me the trinity also states explicitly that Jesus = God. "I and the Father are one." But while I would call myself trinitarian because I value the imagery and understand it symbolically, as I said I'm not hung up on the concept of "One God in Three Persons." Indeed, I think that when we believe we've captured perfectly the very nature of God in a doctrinal statement, we're perilously close to a form of idolatry.

--Hi Rev--I think if you check you will find The GOD Head is made up by 7 " now. GODS number was 8.
Rev 4:5
From the throne issue flashes of lightning, and voices and peals of thunder, and before the throne burn seven torches of fire, which are the seven spirits of God;
Even evil spirits new who Jesus was.
Mar 3:11And whenever the unclean spirits beheld him, they fell down before him and cried out, "You are the Son of God."

 

[GeoFee]

--Hi George , I am not sure why you think Jesus said . It is the Love we feel for the World, of course we do. These verse seem to say different.


Zec 8:17do not devise evil in your hearts against one another, and love no false oath, for all these things I hate, says the LORD."

Gal 5:13For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love be servants of one another.

2Th 1:3We are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, as is fitting, because your faith is growing abundantly, and the love of every one of you for one another is increasing.

1Pe 1:22Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere love of the brethren, love one another earnestly from the heart.

1Pe 4:8Above all hold unfailing your love for one another, since love covers a multitude of sins.

Hi,

I would be happy to give answer but have no idea what you are asking. Will you try again?

George

 

[chansen]

I'm not sure he was asking a question.

If only there was some omnipotent deity who looked favorably upon airclean and could bless him with the ability to communicate for the furthering of his missionary work with us heathens.

 

[GeoFee]

I'm not sure he was asking a question.

If only there was some omnipotent deity who looked favorably upon airclean and could bless him with the ability to communicate for the furthering of his missionary work with us heathens.

Hi,

On the chance that there is no such deity, the best we can hope for is human kindness in the face of disturbing difference.

Among some heathen pot boiled missionary was considered a delicacy.

George

 

[chansen]

Sure, after you boiled off the condescension.

 

[Luce NDs]

Hi,

On the chance that there is no such deity, the best we can hope for is human kindness in the face of disturbing difference.

Among some heathen pot boiled missionary was considered a delicacy.

George

In disassociation of good common sense as denied gnostic ... could we have such IT? Thus god allows deviation in de Aamons ... but the understanding of such ancient ghosts of understanding of those words went with the wind ... torched in Atlanta?

There is no respect for ancient things in any form, or genre ... the spirit of the myth? Thus we are preserved out of the pickle now observed if you have to power to vision such oddities in the night sky ... where we appear to be hung ... like Pete in the temple a heavenly empty space? Is the gate thereof shut up or just silent about what's resting there ?

Who'dah believed real people could support non-sense vs intelligence ... and thus we drifted towards nothing and love as my grandfather labeled it due to loss of thought! One has to love it too ... just so you'de have a place to be Putin IDe ... Jack'd thoughts that weren't write?

 

[revjohn]

Hi,

I would be happy to give answer but have no idea what you are asking. Will you try again?

George

You pushed a couple of theological buttons.

Notice that airclean33 capitalizes the word "world" in doing so he is affirming a dualism of World vs Spirit. World = flesh = sinful = wrong. Therefore, loving the World is wrong. It just isn't something "born again" Christians can ever consider (according to airclean33's understanding.

Also, the underlined portions of the texts airclean33 shoved at you are interpreted by airclean33 to mean that we are only to love and respect others who are "born again." Brother airclean33 rejects, quite strongly that our "biblical" neighbour is anyone we may meet and prefers instead to restrict the parable of the Good Samaritan to strictly in house love.

So, when you dare to say Jesus was said Christians would be defined by their loving service to the lost, broken and oppressed airclean33 reads you to be saying that Jesus wants us to devote more attention and service to just anybody needing help in that regard you are actually helping the World that God finds wanting rather than serving your real brothers and sisters who should be other 'born again" Christians.

It is one of the more interesting revelations he has been given.

 

[airclean33]

Hi,

I would be happy to give answer but have no idea what you are asking. Will you try again?

George

--Hi George The passages I gave seem to say," The Church or Family of GOD , or The children of GOD , Or The Sons of GOD. We can help the world find Jesus . But it is the Holy Spirit" that Teaches them", not us. This don't mean we can't talk to them. The Family of GOD ,is who I worry about most. The world who won't ,or don't accept Christ Jesus" have already been Judged by GOD. There are Sisters an Brothers who are in the world however that we must try and help. If The Holy Spirit tells me to talk to anyone , I will do it. Thus the Importance of receive," GODS Holy Spirit" ,to work with you. To know who will sooner, or later come to GOD.

Jhn 3:17For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.

Jhn 3:18He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

 

[Luce NDs]

You pushed a couple of theological buttons.

Notice that airclean33 capitalizes the word "world" in doing so he is affirming a dualism of World vs Spirit. World = flesh = sinful = wrong. Therefore, loving the World is wrong. It just isn't something "born again" Christians can ever consider (according to airclean33's understanding.

Also, the underlined portions of the texts airclean33 shoved at you are interpreted by airclean33 to mean that we are only to love and respect others who are "born again." Brother airclean33 rejects, quite strongly that our "biblical" neighbour is anyone we may meet and prefers instead to restrict the parable of the Good Samaritan to strictly in house love.

So, when you dare to say Jesus was said Christians would be defined by their loving service to the lost, broken and oppressed airclean33 reads you to be saying that Jesus wants us to devote more attention and service to just anybody needing help in that regard you are actually helping the World that God finds wanting rather than serving your real brothers and sisters who should be other 'born again" Christians.

It is one of the more interesting revelations he has been given.

Sounds like an eastern Tryad to me ... possibly out of NFLD!

 

[airclean33]

Sounds like an eastern Tryad to me ... possibly out of NFLD!

--Hi Luce-- The Christian Church last year . Lost over 2500 kill by Muslim followers. How many of them have you prayed for? Have you even thought about them? This includes women and children. |Not killed because they were fighting . But just because they where trying to walk with GOD. Some of these Killers, may even today live here with us . Are you ready? These are those who don't belong to our God. They follow another. Or do you believe as some have said here , we should become one belief . Along with some other beliefs. Will you accept this?

 

[Mendalla]

Lost over 2500 kill by Muslim followers. How many of them have you prayed for? Have you even thought about them? This includes women and children. |Not killed because they were fighting . But just because they where trying to walk with GOD. Some of these Killers, may even today live here with us . Are you ready? These are those who don't belong to our God. They follow another. Or do you believe as some have said here , we should become one belief . Along with some other beliefs. Will you accept this?

And the thousands of Muslim women and children who died in wars started by Christian leaders?

And, for that matter, you do realize that groups like ISIS target Muslims, too, right? ISIS are radical Sunnis so Shiite Muslims face as much persecution as Christians do.

And when was the last time you looked into the situation of the Bahais, who are growing here in North American but persecuted in much of the Islamic world?

How about the Muslims being attacked by Christians in Africa and by Buddhists in Myanmar/Burma?

Religious persecution goes on all over and it's not one tradition targetted nor is it one tradition doing it. We should be seeking to stop all of it, not seeking special protection for the group we favour. That just opens the door to more persecution.

Becoming one global religion might be a solution but I doubt it. Look at Christianity's history of sectarian violence. From the burning of "heretics" to wars between Protestants and Catholics, I don't see much evidence that being from the same religion actually helps. Ditto Islam, where minority sects are often targets of persecution.

Recognition that religion is a source of friction and beginning dialogue among the members (not just leaders) of various faiths to alleviate ignorance and fear is going to do more than pushing some kind of "religious union". We need think alike to love alike, as we UUs say.

Sure, it's utopian, but it is far more possible now than in the past simply because of the ease of communication and the development of multicultural societies like ours. My son thinks nothing of the fact that he is a secularized atheist hanging out with Bahais, Muslims, and Christians in his circle of friends at school. No persecution, no crusades, just teenagers with different points of view going to the prom together.

 

[airclean33]

You pushed a couple of theological buttons.

Notice that airclean33 capitalizes the word "world" in doing so he is affirming a dualism of World vs Spirit. World = flesh = sinful = wrong. Therefore, loving the World is wrong. It just isn't something "born again" Christians can ever consider (according to airclean33's understanding.

Also, the underlined portions of the texts airclean33 shoved at you are interpreted by airclean33 to mean that we are only to love and respect others who are "born again." Brother airclean33 rejects, quite strongly that our "biblical" neighbour is anyone we may meet and prefers instead to restrict the parable of the Good Samaritan to strictly in house love.

So, when you dare to say Jesus was said Christians would be defined by their loving service to the lost, broken and oppressed airclean33 reads you to be saying that Jesus wants us to devote more attention and service to just anybody needing help in that regard you are actually helping the World that God finds wanting rather than serving your real brothers and sisters who should be other 'born again" Christians.

It is one of the more interesting revelations he has been given.

Hi Rev John--You of all people should know better that to try guess what is in my mind. You also know if you ask . I will try to explain it to you. There are many place in GODS Word that will explain were what I have said is explained. Like who is are Brother.
v 19:15"You shall do no injustice in judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor.

Lev 19:16You shall not go up and down as a slanderer among your people, and you shall not stand forth against the life of your neighbor: I am the LORD.

Lev 19:17"You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason with your neighbor, lest you bear sin because of him.

Lev 19:18You shall not take vengeance or bear any grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.
Have a look John . Who dose this show, who" your Brothers are? If you do, it will show who" your neighbors are.