MikePaterson
Active Member
Pav: definitely sentience — awareness, consciousness. We are learner drivers and not half as smart as we like to think we are.
Muslims & Christians: Same God?
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airclean33
Well-Known Member
-Airclean--post--Mike I am not a believe in more than one GOD. With that thought no matter how humankind see GOD. There then is only one, way He really is . The Bible tells us what and who that way is. His only Begotten Son. That is the one that was made of Him . and was a part of Him. Has told us ,what GOD is to us. That is humankind". He is are Farther. All Living things were made by Him . So I guess you could say He is Father to all living things. I believe are Lord Jesus The Christ is returning very soon. When This God Man ,"comes upon the earth. The Bible " Word of GOD, says, Every living thing, in the sky , on the earth , and in the sea. Will kneel an call Him Lord".
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
So, if there's only one God, airclean, then it stands to reason that we all worship the same god - Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. Only an entirely unjust, and not very bright, god would condemn a large portion of humanity via geography/demographic.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
I believe what Aircleen is trying to say is, there is only one Creator God, but there are other gods as even the Creator says in His Commandments.
I believe the confusion comes because the word God is uses so generically now a days
Pavlos Maros
Well-Known Member
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Then it can't simply be the human condition. Sorry.
airclean33
Well-Known Member
NO Bette The Red--If you believe you car in the drive way , is GOD. You have another thought coming. If you bow down to your car . You can bet" GOD will punish you. There is but one GOD I believe . That GOD being" the same one ,Abraham Bowed to". Not I" but YOU," are sending Millions into hell. For not pointing this out to them. May GOD have mercy on you. By the way BettyTheRed You believe you can judge GOD? I find this very sad. Humankind have done this once before , I think He will not let you do it again.
airclean33
Well-Known Member
Hi blackbelt thank you for your help. But here once more you are wrong. There are no other GODS but the LORD YOUR GOD. We who have accepted Jesus The Christ. Have become children of GOD . As Jesus is a child of GOD. He has made us one, with GOD". This is why The Word of GOD The Bible call's us Gods. We who are no longer of the flesh , but are born by the will of GOD. A Born again Brother is one Born a knew, not of blood" or by the will flesh" , but by the will of GOD, so All Glory Is Gods.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
your welcome
tell that to God
Exodus 20:3 You shall have no other gods before me.
you are not A God,
Jihad Mohammad Hyjazie
Active Member
Mendalla you are right. I do not disagree with anything you said. This being said, I have more to learn about both the Islamic and Christian perspectives and would be happy to share as I learn more and have the chance.
Why the crescent moon and star?
In reality, they do not have any particular significance to all Muslims. I know that it is a symbol that is often used to represent Islam but some Muslims and non-Muslims, but in reality it is not a universal Islamic symbol. In fact, there is no symbol per se that we can use to represent Islam (perhaps like the Star of David for Judaism) . However, later in Islamic history this has been used. I don't know why.
You name for GOD Allah. I believe means number one GOD" . Or best of many Gods". Is this wrong?
Allah is the Arabic name for God. Hence, Arab Jews and Christians would use the word Allah, when speaking about God. It certainly is not the best of many God, since Islam teaches that there is no god but God. Neither is it the number one God, because that would imply their is god number two and three.
Why do Muslims ,Pray to a black rock at mecca?
In the early years of Prophet Muhammad's (peace be upon him and his progeny) Message, Muslims instituted the act of prayer (salah), which was to be repeated a certain number of times per day. In so doing, they were ordained to pray in the direction of Jerusalem, which at the time, was the same direction to which the Christians and the Jews (called the People of the Book, in Islam) prayed. This continued for some time, until God ordered the Messenger (p) to turn in prayer towards the Ka'aba. Like the Jews and the Christians who prayed towards Jerusalem, in praying towards Mecca (and particularly the Ka'aba (a cube-shaped stone edifice)), the intention is not to pray to the city or the edifice but rather to its Lord.
The importance of the direction of prayer has many dimensions of significance. Generally, be it Jerusalem or Mecca, it calls the worshiper to remember the values, principles, teachings, role models that are represented by the focus point of worship (be in Jerusalem or Mecca). In other words, if you are praying towards Jerusalem, you must endeavor to carry the values of Jerusalem, the teaching of Jerusalem and you must love and follow everything and everyone that made Jerusalem that sacred city that it is.
The question then becomes, why away from Jerusalem and towards Mecca? The reasons for this are many and I don't claim to know all of them. However, it must be clear that turning to Mecca is in no way turning away from Jerusalem, since Mecca and the Kaaba (the center of Mecca) was build by Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him) the Father Prophet of all monotheists and the spiritual father of all the Prophets through Isaac and Ismael (peace be upon them both) as believed by the Muslims. Hence, when the Prophet Mohammad (p), who is a known descendant of Prophet Abraham (p) turned to Mecca, the house build by his great-grandfathers (Prophets Abraham and Ismael (p)) upon God command, he was not turning away from Jerusalem. Rather, he turning to the house build by the spiritual father figure for all of Jews, Christians and Muslims. In so doing, amongst many other points, he (p) called the members of each of these creeds to return to their roots and find the common ground between them all and move from there.
This being said, the pilgrimage to Mecca is one of the important pillars of Muslim practice. Its rites are riches with esoteric meanings and lessons for day-to-day life. Millions of human beings perform pilgrimage to Mecca every year. So again, in praying towards the Ka'aba, the Muslim is called to actualize the principles upon which it was built. Such principles include (1) faith in God, in good times or bad times, (2) detachment from materialism, (3) equality before God, irrespective of color, gender, social status, wealth, position, etc, (4) alertness before the human being's first enemy (their base selves and Satan) and many many other points. To learn more read this book: http://www.al-islam.org/hajj-pilgrimage-dr-ali-shariati
Here is something more visual:
In reality, if you want to have a very fast understanding of Islam without reading too much to start with, start by studying the Hajj pilgrimage because it embodies the main principles.
I will take up your effort and endeavor to learn more about Christianity. I have started to read the Bible, but I have a long way to go.
(To Be Continued)
be in God's Care,
Jihad
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Jihad Mohammad Hyjazie
Active Member
Hi @airclean33!
Just continuing about the last question:
You name for GOD Allah. I believe means number one GOD" . Or best of many Gods". Is this wrong?
Allah is the Arabic name for God. It is used by Arab Christians and Arab Jews also. Similar to Dieu (French) Khoda (Persian). Allah does not be the best of many Gods, give that Islam teaches that there is no god but God. Nor does it mean number one God, since that would imply that there is god number two and three.
Rather, Allah comes from the root word (اله) which is take as a deity or worship. However, it has many beautiful threads of meaning that are documented in the Edward Lane Lexicon. Please refer to (http://ejtaal.net/aa/#hw4=h43,ll=11...42,umj=48,bdw=51,amr=25,asb=32,auh=101,dhq=29). Look for what is under (اله).
This being said, it is very important to know that along with Allah (which is a proper name for God, in Islam). Ar-Rahman is also a proper name for God. The latter means the All-beneficent or the All-merciful. Ar-Rahman comes from the root word (رحم) which means to show kindness, to become tender-hearted or to forgive. See the following link under (رحم) (http://ejtaal.net/aa/#hw4=h397,ll=1...j=287,bdw=348,amr=252,asb=343,auh=632,dhq=206)
Here, the best imagery that can help depict the meaning of "Rahmah", from which ar-Rahman is derived, is to look at the womb of a mother (called raham in Arabic another derivative of the same root for ar-Rahman). The 'love' a baby receives from the womb of the mother is (1) comprehensive, (2) all-inclusive, (3) warm, (4) continuous, (5) necessary and finally is conducive to the baby's growth. This imagery defines the conception of ar-Rahman in Islam.
Hence, in Islam Allah or ar-Rahman can both be used as proper names to God.
This being said, to learn more about ar-Rahman and how it is used in the Quran to present God, along with other Names, see the following article: "Image of God in the Quran" http://www.shomali.net/Image of God in the Qur'an.pdf
Just continuing about the last question:
You name for GOD Allah. I believe means number one GOD" . Or best of many Gods". Is this wrong?
Allah is the Arabic name for God. It is used by Arab Christians and Arab Jews also. Similar to Dieu (French) Khoda (Persian). Allah does not be the best of many Gods, give that Islam teaches that there is no god but God. Nor does it mean number one God, since that would imply that there is god number two and three.
Rather, Allah comes from the root word (اله) which is take as a deity or worship. However, it has many beautiful threads of meaning that are documented in the Edward Lane Lexicon. Please refer to (http://ejtaal.net/aa/#hw4=h43,ll=11...42,umj=48,bdw=51,amr=25,asb=32,auh=101,dhq=29). Look for what is under (اله).
This being said, it is very important to know that along with Allah (which is a proper name for God, in Islam). Ar-Rahman is also a proper name for God. The latter means the All-beneficent or the All-merciful. Ar-Rahman comes from the root word (رحم) which means to show kindness, to become tender-hearted or to forgive. See the following link under (رحم) (http://ejtaal.net/aa/#hw4=h397,ll=1...j=287,bdw=348,amr=252,asb=343,auh=632,dhq=206)
Here, the best imagery that can help depict the meaning of "Rahmah", from which ar-Rahman is derived, is to look at the womb of a mother (called raham in Arabic another derivative of the same root for ar-Rahman). The 'love' a baby receives from the womb of the mother is (1) comprehensive, (2) all-inclusive, (3) warm, (4) continuous, (5) necessary and finally is conducive to the baby's growth. This imagery defines the conception of ar-Rahman in Islam.
Hence, in Islam Allah or ar-Rahman can both be used as proper names to God.
This being said, to learn more about ar-Rahman and how it is used in the Quran to present God, along with other Names, see the following article: "Image of God in the Quran" http://www.shomali.net/Image of God in the Qur'an.pdf
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Jihad Mohammad Hyjazie
Active Member
Sorry for the typos, typing fast and must go back to work. Always a pleasure though. be in God's Care,
airclean33
Well-Known Member
airclean33 said: ↑
Hi blackbelt thank you for your help.
Click to expand...
BB-post---
your welcome
Airclean--post--
But here once more you are wrong. There are no other GODS but the LORD YOUR GOD
--B-B-Post--
Exodus 20:3 You shall have no other gods before me.
Airclean--post--
Mar 12:32"Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.
Jos 22:22"The Mighty One, God, the LORD! The Mighty One, God, the LORD! He knows; and let Israel itself know! If it was in rebellion or in breach of faith toward the LORD, spare us not today
Psa 50:1A Psalm of Asaph. The Mighty One, God the LORD, speaks and summons the earth from the rising of the sun to its setting.
Mal 2:10Have we not all one father? Has not one God created us? Why then are we faithless to one another, profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Mal 2:15Has not the one God made and sustained for us the spirit of life? And what does he desire? Godly offspring. So take heed to yourselves, and let none be faithless to the wife of his youth.
1Co 8:6yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Eph 4:6one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.
1Ti 2:5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Hi blackbelt thank you for your help.
Click to expand...
BB-post---
your welcome
Airclean--post--
But here once more you are wrong. There are no other GODS but the LORD YOUR GOD
--B-B-Post--
Exodus 20:3 You shall have no other gods before me.
Airclean--post--
Mar 12:32"Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.
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A relevant starting point for Muslim/ Christian dialogue on the Trinity is the role of Theophilus of Antioch (190 AD) as the first church Father to apply the word Trinity to the Godhead: "the trinity (Greek trias) of God, and His Word, and His wisdom. (II,15)." Notice that there is no implication of 3 distinct "Persons" here. The word "person" or its Hebrew and Greek equivalent is never applied to God, the Son of God, or the Holy Spirit in the Bible.
"The Word" (Logos) refers to the rational Self-expression of God as opposed to the unknowable and mysterious aspects of God. "Wisdom" refers to God's practical knowledge, power, and awareness. and can be used interchangeably with "the Holy Spirit." Christians identify Jesus as the Logos or "Word" of God, but this does not mean that prior to His Incarnation, Jesus was a Person separate from God. In the New Testament, the "Spirit of Christ" and "the Holy Spirit" are used interchangeably and are different ways of referring to the Divine. As a parallel, I heard a Muslim point out the relevance of a Quranic reference to Allah in the Burning Bush. This in no way implies that Allah is ontologically divided.
"The Word" (Logos) refers to the rational Self-expression of God as opposed to the unknowable and mysterious aspects of God. "Wisdom" refers to God's practical knowledge, power, and awareness. and can be used interchangeably with "the Holy Spirit." Christians identify Jesus as the Logos or "Word" of God, but this does not mean that prior to His Incarnation, Jesus was a Person separate from God. In the New Testament, the "Spirit of Christ" and "the Holy Spirit" are used interchangeably and are different ways of referring to the Divine. As a parallel, I heard a Muslim point out the relevance of a Quranic reference to Allah in the Burning Bush. This in no way implies that Allah is ontologically divided.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
airclean33 said: ↑
Hi blackbelt thank you for your help.
Click to expand...
BB-post---
your welcome
Airclean--post--
But here once more you are wrong. There are no other GODS but the LORD YOUR GOD.
Click to expand...
tell that to God
--B-B-Post--
Exodus 20:3 You shall have no other gods before me.
Airclean--post--
Mar 12:32"Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.
Jos 22:22"The Mighty One, God, the LORD! The Mighty One, God, the LORD! He knows; and let Israel itself know! If it was in rebellion or in breach of faith toward the LORD, spare us not today
Psa 50:1A Psalm of Asaph. The Mighty One, God the LORD, speaks and summons the earth from the rising of the sun to its setting.
Mal 2:10Have we not all one father? Has not one God created us? Why then are we faithless to one another, profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Mal 2:15Has not the one God made and sustained for us the spirit of life? And what does he desire? Godly offspring. So take heed to yourselves, and let none be faithless to the wife of his youth.
1Co 8:6yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Eph 4:6one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.
1Ti 2:5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
2 cor 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
Aircleen , I believe your confusion is in not understanding the word God
airclean33
Well-Known Member
Airclean--post--
The Bible call's us Gods.
B-B--post---
you are not A God,
Airclean--post--You need to read B-B . I said we are a part of GOD "as was Jesus The Christ. Is there a part of GOD that is not GOD?
The Bible call's us Gods.
B-B--post---
you are not A God,
Airclean--post--You need to read B-B . I said we are a part of GOD "as was Jesus The Christ. Is there a part of GOD that is not GOD?
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
Christ is not a part of God Aircleen, Christ is God
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Another question, airclean. The god of the Hebrew Scripture is the same as that of the New Testament, yes? So you will agree that Jews and Christians share the same God? Even though Jews reject Jesus, and therefore the trinitarian god formula.
airclean33
Well-Known Member
airclean33
Well-Known Member
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
being made in the Likeness of God Aircleen is not the same as Being God