Muslims & Christians: Same God?

[Jaebius]

In the introduction of Allah: A Christian Response, Volf provides his list of what he calls his "hot and spicy theses" They are...

“Hot & Spicy" Theses (Volf, 14-15).

1. Christians and Muslims worship one and the same God.

2. The splitting of the divine essence that the Qur’an denies in concern to the Trinity should be denied by every orthodox Christian today.

3. Both Muslims and Christians describe God as loving and just.

4. The one and only God commands Muslims and Christians alike to love their neighbors.

5. Worshiping the same God gives Christians and Muslims a robust moral framework to pursue the common good together.

6. Christians should see Muslims as allies in resisting the modern tendency to see mere pleasure, rather than justice and love, as the hallmarks of the good life.

7. What matters is not religious affiliation. What matters is whether you love God and whether you trust and obey Christ.

8. Love and justice, rooted in God, require that all have the right to choose, change, and publicly practice their religion.

9. All people have the right to witness about their faith. At the same time, those who witness have an obligation to follow the Golden Rule.

10. To give allegiance to the one God who enjoins humans to be loving and just to all means to embrace pluralism as a political project.

 

[Pavlos Maros]

I actually have read the Quran from cover to cover and I think it was a bit of a stretch on your part to suggest that the Quran was basically a "direct copy" of the Hebrew Scriptures. The Hebrews would certainly be surprised to hear that, given the amount of material about Jesus and Mary that's found in the Quran. You'd be on firmer ground in suggesting that the Quran is based on many of the same stories/traditions that are found in the Hebrew Scriptures - and for that matter on some of the stories found in the New Testament. But the Quran does put a different spin on those stories/traditions. Certainly we can say that Islam was influenced by both Judaism and Christianity.

Agreed. I however did say almost, perhaps it was little rich.

Comparative religion is a fascinating study. Way back in the "then times" when I was pursuing my M.Div degree one of my highest marks as I recall was in the required course on Comparative Religion. But comparative religion has to respect the differences between the various faith systems rather than just looking for the common ground, or trying to blend everything together.

Agreed.

 

[blackbelt1961]

In the introduction of Allah: A Christian Response, Volf provides his list of what he calls his "hot and spicy theses" They are...

“Hot & Spicy" Theses (Volf, 14-15).

1. Christians and Muslims worship one and the same God.

I do not believe so

2. The splitting of the divine essence that the Qur’an denies in concern to the Trinity should be denied by every orthodox Christian today.

and will be denied, clearly a different God , reminds me of a phrase I heard from a Muslim when he Met Jesus , he was so over wellmed by the Lords Presence he said to Jesus, " Lord tell me what I now must do, I will fight & die for you " Jesus Responded,
Do not die for me, I died for you that you may Live!

3. Both Muslims and Christians describe God as loving and just.

I find no Justice in Allah , I do find it in the works of Jesus

4. The one and only God commands Muslims and Christians alike to love their neighbors.

but only Jesus raises the bar of the Golden Rule to love your Enemy

5. Worshiping the same God gives Christians and Muslims a robust moral framework to pursue the common good together.

whos common Good? mans or Yahweh?

6. Christians should see Muslims as allies in resisting the modern tendency to see mere pleasure, rather than justice and love, as the hallmarks of the good life.

Christians do not see Muslims as enemies. Mere pleasure, Justice & Love is a big assumption

7. What matters is not religious affiliation. What matters is whether you love God and whether you trust and obey Christ.

Trusting and obeying Christ is being a Christian not a muslim or any other religious affiliation

8. Love and justice, rooted in God, require that all have the right to choose, change, and publicly practice their religion.

agreed, God Gives us that Right and Choice , but not all choices are True

9. All people have the right to witness about their faith. At the same time, those who witness have an obligation to follow the Golden Rule.

agreed

10. To give allegiance to the one God who enjoins humans to be loving and just to all means to embrace pluralism as a political project.

I find this statement false, I do not see any plurality in the Singularly of the Creator , nore do i see any plurality in the rd back to Him.

 

[airclean33]

Well it is known that Judeism and Christianity and Islam are all abrahamic religions under the same god. However as no gods have ever been shown to exist. it's a bit of a moot point as Quezacotl could be the one true god, or even Bumba, etc.. in order to truly discuss whether the god of the bible is the same as the god of the Qu'ran, it is within your best interest to establish some truth in it's existence. isn't it!
However as we are simply assuming a god exists the any god will do. but lets say that the Jews follow the OT and your god is the god of the OT, the Qu'ran is almost a direct copy of the Hebrew bible so they are following the same god as the Jews el'ohim(al'lah)-(yahwah)

I believe if you look up on the top of there mosque you will see the Crescent Moon and star . which is the sign of baal the god of the moon with a star .this may help.

Allah - the Moon God
The Archaeology of the Middle East
The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre-Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre-Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. Religious claims often fall before the results of hard sciences such as archeology. We can endlessly speculate about the past or go and dig it up and see what the evidence reveals. This is the only way to find out the truth concerning the origins of Allah. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters.

 

[Luce NDs]

Is a game derived from gammas the dark art of word philology ?

Would one adhering to a singular myth without the implications miss it?

Thus mono minds in a world of the 4 hoer s' men ... perhaps oarsmen of Michael who wasn't Rouen ... as that was in ancient Gael? Perhaps the Souers of Paris as an under sighing? No po' ...

And even Lil Abner ... an American attribute to comedy ... was part time employed to do crescents on outer houses ... god chits or just wee bites for the chit eaters ... wee bits at a time?

Would that cap atoll as android-ism? Belief in the mortal and not the incarnate! Just breaks me up ...

Some people just do not believe the unseen ... though their book says the unseen may be angelic ... beyond eve angels that bring the shadow to leave us in the dark! Thus the shadow has extracted my thoughts ... happens in the night ...

 

[airclean33]

This a Pictor I showed a member here called witch". He could not tell me much about it or at least he would not. It is taken from a witch program . please note the shoulder Crescent Moon and stars. Again this is from which craft. Also moon over head.

 

[blackbelt1961]

 

[Jaebius]

In Chapter 1 of his book, Volf shares that, in September 2006, Pope Benedict XVI gave a speech at the University of Regensberg.

In his speech, Volf writes, the Pope argued that Islam is a violent religion because it worships a violent God. The Pope, he says, claimed that while the Christian God is one of reason, the Muslim God is an arbitrary deity, and therefore Islam is incompatible with deliberative democracy.

One month after the speech, Volf shares, Islamic scholars responded. They issued an “Open Letter” that contained a point-by-point refutation of the Pope’s statements in the lecture.

According to Volf, they stated that the “common essence” of Christianity and Islam are the “two greatest commandments: “…you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.” and, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Mark 12:29-31).

In 2007, Volf adds, Muslims leaders led by Prince Ghazi bin Muhammad bin Talal issued “A Common Word Between Us and You.” In it, he says, they argued that God’s commandments unite Muslims and Christians more than divide them.

According to Volf, the signatories of the “Common Word” argued that in Islam, love of God and love of neighbor are central. Their point, he writes, is that the two greatest commandments “are an area of common ground and a link between the Qur’an, the Torah and the New Testament.”

 

[Mystic]

As I've said, "the same" is an ambiguous phrase twisted to serve some purpose. If the purpose is to promote dialogue or humane treatment, then it is appropriate to stress the similarities and speak of "the same God." If the purpose is demonstrate expertise in a comparative religion course, then the differences should be stressed for various types of Christianity and Islam and God is not the same in both traditions. If the purpose is to support the claim that both traditions are equally valid paths to salvation, then both traditions strongly disagree and we should insist that Yahweh and Allah are not the same God. Christians are bound by the Great Commission in Matthew 28:16-20 and that means an obligation to evangelize Muslims. In fact, the most recent research on the decline of mainline churches suggests that the most important reason for decline is the belief of many mainliners that each religious tradition is an equally valid approach to God and salvation.


Baptist megachurch pastor Rick Warren has been excoriated by other Christians for agreeing to be a keynote speaker at a national Muslim conference. But Rick is merely trying to create an atmosphere of cooperation for a joint Muslim-Christian effort to combat life-threatening diseases in Africa and friendlier relations here in the USA. He still believes Muslims should be evangelized. Note that the Great Commi ssion does not warrant a carte blanche statement that all Muslims are headed to eternity without God. We must still allow God to be the final judge. The NT allows for the possibility of salvation for Gentiles who, for various reasons, have never accepted Christ as their Savior.

 

[Luce NDs]

View attachment 551


This a Pictor I showed a member here called witch". He could not tell me much about it or at least he would not. It is taken from a witch program . please note the shoulder Crescent Moon and stars. Again this is from which craft. Also moon over head.

Tis witch craft when one can rotate or plae the role between thinking and feeling ... you know sensitively emotional? Most of those involved in one-sided polity ... cannot waver and thus miss the lessons woven by the great shuttlecock who weaved between knowing and knots ... thus gathering up people like me as reading into Luce NDs ... the polity of the other paro deus as dies do not ... they are straight liners unlike light (de Khrist) who wondered the earth as a crusty support system for reflection of what fell out of de ole Saul ... riding a hoes with no name ... unspeakable, or ineffable if you don't deal with people who can love knowledge and wisdom. Philosophers that are difficult to turn because they already flip-flop so as two see what's underneath the hard shells ...on bounce of ego ... ths may be de hoes of the rising one known as Saul ... once viewed rye in a cave by a mythical beauty called da'wID ... a dowdy attribute afloat ... as dhow ... we don't know ... but obviously a much adored vessel of buoyancy ... as chi is all over that boie as in gull phing. Considering the "g" silent and dark in Greek ... is that ionic or an iconic charged separation?

Will she come out of the next creation as ominous when she finds out what Heh did to Shae ... while Ur thoughts were obliterated by some brainstorm event when she was previously all over him? Is that adequate cover for how conjugation was in the beguine in ... obviously someone was beguiled ...or there was a sense of isolation that needed to be healed ... thus the doctrine of occluded sects! Hard take by some that insist on standing alone ... darkly eve angel I zing with shadowy stories to raise fears of everything ... thus the word is feared and few read into the book because of paralysis! You know stuck people ... institutional ... haven't yet sorted themselves out ... for sharing appropriately ...

You can be pickier in the second's witch ... may creep up on you faster than you think ... as thoughts are latent to emotions ... close to hermeneutic! Does make some peoples be itchier to regain what they lost for not having reverends ... bummers coing round and round in the danse of Pan's with antes ... the part before eM! Tis a diverse thing at times ... sometimes wanting ... sometimes kneading ... sometimes not! Flat out corn pone?

 

[revsdd]

It's worth pointing out for those who get their stomach tied in knots over "allah" that it is the Arabic word for god, and that Arabic-speaking Christians (and there are lots of them!) also pray to "allah." Objecting to "allah" is similar to objecting to French-speaking people praying to "mon dieu." It's a word. It's a word that when capitalized has a particular meaning to Muslims, just as "God" when capitalized has a particular meaning to Christians.

As for the crescent and star. There's no doubt that similar symbols predate Islam by many centuries and were symbols used in other religions. My understanding, though, is that in the earlier religions they were usually used as part of a triad, with a symbol representing the sun god included. I don't know much more about it than that. It's relation to wicca (which airclean assumes from the picture he posted and asked Witch about) is totally unknown to me. Many aside from Christians now use and or wear the cross. Does the fact that the KKK uses the cross as a symbol make the cross evil or unChristian?

I've read that the crescent and star has not actually been associated with Islam for all that long. It actually began to be used in the 19th century as a nationalist symbol in the Ottoman Empire and then was incorporated into the flags and national symbols of the Empire's successor states - all of which were Muslim. It morphed from a largely national symbol into a religious symbol in the early 20th century.

The fact that it predates Islam only demonstrates at most that Islam has sometimes taken symbols associated with other faiths and cultures and "islam-ized" them, much as Christians have "christian-ized" symbols associated with other faiths and cultures.

Some Christians spend way too much time worrying about things like this.

 

[Luce NDs]

It's worth pointing out for those who get their stomach tied in knots over "allah" that it is the Arabic word for god, and that Arabic-speaking Christians (and there are lots of them!) also pray to "allah." Objecting to "allah" is similar to objecting to French-speaking people praying to "mon dieu." It's a word. It's a word that when capitalized has a particular meaning to Muslims, just as "God" when capitalized has a particular meaning to Christians.

As for the crescent and star. There's no doubt that similar symbols predate Islam by many centuries and were symbols used in other religions. My understanding, though, is that in the earlier religions they were usually used as part of a triad, with a symbol representing the sun god included. I don't know much more about it than that. It's relation to wicca (which airclean assumes from the picture he posted and asked Witch about) is totally unknown to me. Many aside from Christians now use and or wear the cross. Does the fact that the KKK uses the cross as a symbol make the cross evil or unChristian?

I've read that the crescent and star has not actually been associated with Islam for all that long. It actually began to be used in the 19th century as a nationalist symbol in the Ottoman Empire and then was incorporated into the flags and national symbols of the Empire's successor states - all of which were Muslim. It morphed from a largely national symbol into a religious symbol in the early 20th century.

The fact that it predates Islam only demonstrates at most that Islam has sometimes taken symbols associated with other faiths and cultures and "islam-ized" them, much as Christians have "christian-ized" symbols associated with other faiths and cultures.

Some Christians spend way too much time worrying about things like this.

Then there is the connection to the Gael nationalities that use the word "allez" for the traveller ... making us mobile types wonder about those stuck on passions and can't get that objective sense of a vision from without the subject ... kind 'a like an OBI ... or what was once known as a sense of ecstasy ... just GOOGLE ecstasy and see the variants that come and go like love leaving you with a time to think ... but Roman Officials didn't like thinkers ... especially ancient Aramaic's, etc. ... they tried to eliminate them too ... thus ego*ST ... just another word in dark on the page! Shades of 'eLLe for those disposing of literacy ... forcing intellect under the cover of story ... but you never can be sure since the dark side of God seems to like the continuum of change ... thus the broad-based population that likes to change clothes often!

B' ithchii 've a thing to the budget!

 

[Jaebius]

The exciting promise of the “Common Word,” Volf writes, is to bridge the chasm between Muslim and Christian communities through a common commitment to love God and neighbor. The promise of the “Common Word,” he says, is that if Muslims and Christians worship the same God, the love of each for God will help them live together and make neighborly love easier.

According to Volf, the Qur’an states that Christians and Muslims believe in the same God. It is written, he shares, “We believe what was revealed to us and what was revealed to you. Our God and your God is one, and to him we submit as Muslims.” – Al ‘Ankabut, 29:46. And also: “God is our Lord and your Lord; we have our works and you have your works; there is no argument between us and you; God brings us together; and to him is the final destiny” – Al Shura, 42:15.

Three years after Benedict’s Resenberg lecture, Volf notes, reconciliation of sorts was achieved in Amman, in the persons of Benedict XVI and Prince Ghazi bin Muhammad bin Talal – a joint affirmation of a shared belief in one God and a common commitment to love God and neighbor.

 

[Waterfall]

Just as Christians will read into the scriptures of the Old Testament so do Muslims.
Deuteronomy 18:18-22 is said to be a prophecy about Muhammad and not Jesus. It is pointed out that Muhammad was more like Moses than Jesus was.

Personally I don't see Islam as a tolerant religion. Muhammad's teachings started out that way when he began and was still in Mecca. His followers were only 150 and the city of Mecca in these days was a very tolerant society towards other faiths. Some say due to the small number of followers in his hometown and the ridicule he endured for 13 years after his proclamations, that he spoke of tolerance also. (which accounts for the peaceful part of Islam) But when he left to go to Medina, his followers increased, and he came back to destroy Mecca (and did). He imposed new laws. Unbelievers of Islam/God were to convert or were put to death. Mecca became one of the most intolerant places to live on earth......and still is. Unbelievers are not welcome. (with very rare exceptions)

The formula for spreading Islam, after Mecca was seized, in the quran seems to be to become great in numbers and destroy the cities of the unbelievers. His last words before he died was to this effect. Toleration for the people of the book, (Christians and Jews) is limited and they are to be shamed in public in many ways, should they be allowed to live. All other faiths are to be killed outright.(Hindus, Budhists, etc...)

At one time Muhammad was married to one woman for 25 years (Khadija) who was originally a Coptic Christian and a very wealthy business woman, and I believe he was greatly influenced by her.(at one time he worked for her until SHE proposed to him) She supported his visions of Gabriel in the cave and the messages given to him. She believed he was God's prophet in fact she seems to be as much a part of the beginnings of Islam as Muhammad by continuously discouraging his doubts. When she died, he took on many wives and it seems his "vision" changed as to how God and he would have more influence to turn others into "believers" for Islam....the method of force and intolerance.

Islam means peace, but I believe that peace according to Islam, only occurs when the whole world is under one religion.....Islam.

I would be interested to hear from others that I am wrong because I am becoming discouraged by what I've been reading from and about the origins of the quran.

 

[Luce NDs]

Just as Christians will read into the scriptures of the Old Testament so do Muslims.
Deuteronomy 18:18-22 is said to be a prophecy about Muhammad and not Jesus. It is pointed out that Muhammad was more like Moses than Jesus was.

Personally I don't see Islam as a tolerant religion. Muhammad's teachings started out that way when he began and was still in Mecca. His followers were only 150 and the city of Mecca in these days was a very tolerant society towards other faiths. Some say due to the small number of followers in his hometown and the ridicule he endured for 13 years after his proclamations, that he spoke of tolerance also. (which accounts for the peaceful part of Islam) But when he left to go to Medina, his followers increased, and he came back to destroy Mecca (and did). He imposed new laws. Unbelievers of Islam were to convert or were put to death. Mecca became one of the most intolerant places to live on earth......and still is. Unbelievers are not welcome. (with very rare exceptions)

The formula for spreading Islam, after Mecca was seized, in the quran seems to be to become great in numbers and destroy the cities of the unbelievers. His last words before he died was to this effect. Toleration for the people of the book, (Christians and Jews) is limited and they are to be shamed in public in many ways, should they be allowed to live. All other faiths are to be killed outright.(Hindus, Budhists, etc...)

At one time Muhammad was married to one woman for 25 years (Khadija) who was originally a Coptic Christian and a very wealthy business woman, and I believe he was greatly influenced by her.(at one time he worked for her until SHE proposed to him) She supported his visions of Gabriel in the cave and the messages given to him. She believed he was God's prophet in fact she seems to be as much a part of the beginnings of Islam as Muhammad by continuously discouraging his doubts. When she died, he took on many wives and it seems his "vision" changed as to how God and he would have more influence to turn others into "believers" for Islam....the method of force and intolerance.

Islam means peace, but I believe that peace according to Islam, only occurs when the whole world is under one religion.....Islam.

I would be interested to hear from others that I am wrong because I am becoming discouraged by what I've been reading from and about the origins of the quran.

Just accept that people with an ideal of free will without respect for rationale ... will read into things they way they feel without awareness of cross connections to dissociated points ... as many Christians often like to deny stuff they don't grasp!

One must reach and embrace ... giving ankh to some as it stresses their brain ... if you work it ... those things Luce'n up like the morning sun ... Luce ID-like? Does that approach Claris?

 

[Waterfall]

The exciting promise of the “Common Word,” Volf writes, is to bridge the chasm between Muslim and Christian communities through a common commitment to love God and neighbor. The promise of the “Common Word,” he says, is that if Muslims and Christians worship the same God, the love of each for God will help them live together and make neighborly love easier.

If you are a Christian neighbour within a Muslim country:
The Pact of Umar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pact_of_Umar

 

[airclean33]

It's worth pointing out for those who get their stomach tied in knots over "allah" that it is the Arabic word for god, and that Arabic-speaking Christians (and there are lots of them!) also pray to "allah." Objecting to "allah" is similar to objecting to French-speaking people praying to "mon dieu." It's a word. It's a word that when capitalized has a particular meaning to Muslims, just as "God" when capitalized has a particular meaning to Christians.

--Airclean--Post --I believe you will find Rev this word Allah" really means First of a group of gods
.
--Rev sdd--post--
As for the crescent and star. There's no doubt that similar symbols predate Islam by many centuries and were symbols used in other religions. My understanding, though, is that in the earlier religions they were usually used as part of a triad, with a symbol representing the sun god included. I don't know much more about it than that. It's relation to wicca (which airclean assumes from the picture he posted and asked Witch about) is totally unknown to me. Many aside from Christians now use and or wear the cross. Does the fact that the KKK uses the cross as a symbol make the cross evil or unChristian?

I've read that the crescent and star has not actually been associated with Islam for all that long. It actually began to be used in the 19th century as a nationalist symbol in the Ottoman Empire and then was incorporated into the flags and national symbols of the Empire's successor states - all of which were Muslim. It morphed from a largely national symbol into a religious symbol in the early 20th century.

The fact that it predates Islam only demonstrates at most that Islam has sometimes taken symbols associated with other faiths and cultures and "islam-ized" them, much as Christians have "christian-ized" symbols associated with other faiths and cultures.

Some Christians spend way too much time worrying about things like this.

--Good morning Revsdd-- I was wondering if you know, much about there bible the Muslim use the Qur'an? I was wondering if you know ,it states they are to kill those who don't bow to there god Allah. You I am sure you understand they hate Israel. What dose are Bible say about those who hate Israel? I believe they can follow any God they want . I how ever don't trust them. They do not believe in live and let live. They are proving this today all over the world. In Muslim area's they have kill thousands of Christians and still are. They have attacked many Nations though out the world an Kill many others.

 

[chansen]

Whereas Christians have historically brought out the welcome mats for those of other faiths and no faith. No violence from Christians. No way.

 

[GeoFee]

"One would think that if it actually is the same God at play there would be better relations between all of these children of God." John

Sort of like what we see in a meeting of some number of persons of Christian persuasion in any town any time?

 

[airclean33]

Whereas Christians have historically brought out the welcome mats for those of other faiths and no faith. No violence from Christians. No way.

--Hi Chansen yes I agree , Christian have not always treated those who are not Christians as they should have. So no now I must ask . Are you Chinese, Two wong's make a wright?