Muslims & Christians: Same God?

[Jaebius]

Now a very short introduction to Miroslav Volf and his book...

Miroslav Volf is the Henry B. Wright Professor of Systematic Theology, and the Founding Director, of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture.

In October 2007, he was the lead author of the Christian “Yale Response” to “A Common Word Between Us and You.” The latter, an open letter signed by over 100 Muslim leaders, identified common ground at the core of Islam and Christianity.

Volf’s interest in writing “Allah: A Christian Response” was to suggest the proper Christian stance toward the God of the Qur’an, and the promise of peace that stance means for Christians’ and Muslims’ ability to live together in a single and endangered world.

The question of whether Christians and Muslims worship the same God was urgent when Volf wrote his book in 1973. The world was becoming increasingly interconnected and interdependent. Tensions between the Muslim communities and the West were high. Fears abounded. Western armies were engaged in wars on the soil of majority Muslim countries.

Volf’s book remains important today. Terrorism in the world has escalated. Relations between Christians and Muslims remain in the news. In December, 2015, Donald Trump said of Muslims, “They're not coming to this country if I'm president. And if Obama has brought some to this country they are leaving, they're going, they're gone." Also in December, Professor Larycia Hawkins was suspended from Wheaten College after claiming that Muslims and Christians worship the same God.

 

[Waterfall]

Of course we all worship the same God, and that God is oil, materialism, greed and power. We may claim the God within scriptures as the one we worship but our actions show otherwise and all of the trouble in the world is usually caused by the imbalance of the distribution of wealth, power and the necessities of life. Most human beings as a nation use God to support their own ambitions but quietly and silently and alone in our houses we all pray to the common God that will remove these sins from our lives so we can continue our business as usual.

 

[Luce NDs]

Speaking a difference of divine revelation, have you ever heard a more miraculous conversion testimony than this devout Muslim's faith journey from Islam to a Christian faith?

Are explicit experiences out there according to those that believe they've gathered everything to themselves ... and they don't understand self and related Ness? Thus ID(E) goes ... as chi ... an unknown as a stranger angel as she walks and talks and does devious things ... apart from ordinary Christians ... purely subtle !

 

[Luce NDs]

Now a very short introduction to Miroslav Volf and his book...

Miroslav Volf is the Henry B. Wright Professor of Systematic Theology, and the Founding Director, of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture.

In October 2007, he was the lead author of the Christian “Yale Response” to “A Common Word Between Us and You.” The latter, an open letter signed by over 100 Muslim leaders, identified common ground at the core of Islam and Christianity.

Volf’s interest in writing “Allah: A Christian Response” was to suggest the proper Christian stance toward the God of the Qur’an, and the promise of peace that stance means for Christians’ and Muslims’ ability to live together in a single and endangered world.

The question of whether Christians and Muslims worship the same God was urgent when Volf wrote his book in 1973. The world was becoming increasingly interconnected and interdependent. Tensions between the Muslim communities and the West were high. Fears abounded. Western armies were engaged in wars on the soil of majority Muslim countries.

Volf’s book remains important today. Terrorism in the world has escalated. Relations between Christians and Muslims remain in the news. In December, 2015, Donald Trump said of Muslims, “They're not coming to this country if I'm president. And if Obama has brought some to this country they are leaving, they're going, they're gone." Also in December, Professor Larycia Hawkins was suspended from Wheaten College after claiming that Muslims and Christians worship the same God.

Systematically, Theos ... can a powerful Christian put God in order when they don't even recognize the bounds of God when popping up in the domain of presence?

Leaves me short of words on such desired points of order that might arrive as disseating the logic temporarily ... for a rest to the Wicca's order ... basket cases?

Lord contain us ...

 

[unsafe]

If Islam --Judaism and Christians all are for the one God why the conflict ----should be one Bible ---one following---all Followers of the way of Jesus Christ ----

The UK is having problems ----

Christians Warned Not to Preach in Birmingham’s Muslim No-Go Area
http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/christians-warned-not-preach-birmingham’s-muslim-no-go-area

Two Christian evangelists have received an official police warning not to preach in the Muslim-colonised area of Alum Rock in Birmingham or face being “beaten up” in the latest example of Islamic no-go areas in Britain.


British Prime Minister Makes Major Move Against Muslims After Islam Takes Over UK
https://www.mrconservative.com/2015...ve-against-muslims-after-islam-takes-over-uk/

Over the last few years, Islamic practices have surged in the U.K. after millions of Muslims fled there from the Middle East.
At first, the British public welcomed the Muslims with open arms, but then it became clear that the Islamists had every intention of taking over the European nation and enforcing Shariah law there. Now, Prime Minister David Cameron has made a major move against Muslims in Britain that may just give them the wake up call they need to back off.



One Hour Compilation of how Islam is Ruining Europe and America

This is interesting ---in the Video one person says that Islam will take over the Buckingham Palace and turn it into a Mosque ----He says the Queen will have to become Islamic or leave the country ------And many think Donald Trump is bad for wanting to weed out and deport the bad ---I think he has a point -------

Switzerland is also having Problems -----from Wall Street Journal http://www.wsj.com/articles/calls-to-curb-muslim-immigration-rise-in-switzerland-1421076810

ZURICH—Calls to curb immigration from Muslim countries to Switzerland have risen sincelast week’s terror spree in Paris, the latest evidence that anti-Islam sentiment is rising in one of Europe’s most tolerant countries.

This video shows that the decrease in many families having children and this decreases the Population and How Immigration is keeping the population going in Europe ------



ISLAM TAKING OVER EUROPE ! Sharia law soon in Europe

This video is very scary ----it is not that long and you would do well to view it ------any thoughts on this

 

[Luce NDs]

Is it funny that religious extremists of all types are exclusively against alien gatherings?

All those strangers ... within there could be lurking angels ... thus virtually unseen! Neigh satyrs?

 

[blackbelt1961]

a sect of certain Muslims want a Caliphate Government

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate

I do not believe they worship the same God,

 

[Luce NDs]

Do some Christians believe that the eternal is out of reach (out-there) for much of the infinite creation and thus god cannot see itself unless going through the isolation system of Schrodinger's Kitty ... a place to put thoughts too far out for Christians in denial of anything eternal?

If god was locked up in a tight-assed isolationist ... would god miss a lot of what was created and what wasn't? Thus god must get out of the cell ... a parallel to that poor woman in Norwich ... Julie Ann who was a spin off of Julian ... one hard assed Romantic ...

Thus some gods are like a clam .... some vertebrates, some invertebrates ... some scientist (observational persona) even suggest that the psyche or intelligence carrying function is something beyond the human wiles ... to be reach for by various extensions ... just for a needle to sow up the RIFT? Once in the fabric does one learn anything else ... or do the people in the black look out without the other seeing? I get an image of two peopple suited up in the cover of an ass ... donkeys that are temporarily self absorbed ...

Consider the word anecdote (movement to share experiences) .. in avarice are some people only willing to share their experiences as all there is of an eternal perspective ... gut Goth almighty that is a limited perspective ... in the dark none-the-less!

i.e. would these types of Christian like to control the wholly thing without sharing stranger's experiences? Then would they miss angels in Black & White ... like a sig'in in the night ... near silence but that moon 'n experience that nothing is going on? This way Moonie type organizations can keep you in a state that you don't know your being scroo'd over ... some know Beta ... that second breath, or 2nd look ...

 

[Waterfall]

If Islam --Judaism and Christians all are for the one God why the conflict ----should be one Bible ---one following---all Followers of the way of Jesus Christ ----

The UK is having problems ----

Christians Warned Not to Preach in Birmingham’s Muslim No-Go Area
http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/christians-warned-not-preach-birmingham’s-muslim-no-go-area

Two Christian evangelists have received an official police warning not to preach in the Muslim-colonised area of Alum Rock in Birmingham or face being “beaten up” in the latest example of Islamic no-go areas in Britain.


British Prime Minister Makes Major Move Against Muslims After Islam Takes Over UK
https://www.mrconservative.com/2015...ve-against-muslims-after-islam-takes-over-uk/

Over the last few years, Islamic practices have surged in the U.K. after millions of Muslims fled there from the Middle East.
At first, the British public welcomed the Muslims with open arms, but then it became clear that the Islamists had every intention of taking over the European nation and enforcing Shariah law there. Now, Prime Minister David Cameron has made a major move against Muslims in Britain that may just give them the wake up call they need to back off.



One Hour Compilation of how Islam is Ruining Europe and America

This is interesting ---in the Video one person says that Islam will take over the Buckingham Palace and turn it into a Mosque ----He says the Queen will have to become Islamic or leave the country ------And many think Donald Trump is bad for wanting to weed out and deport the bad ---I think he has a point -------

Switzerland is also having Problems -----from Wall Street Journal http://www.wsj.com/articles/calls-to-curb-muslim-immigration-rise-in-switzerland-1421076810

ZURICH—Calls to curb immigration from Muslim countries to Switzerland have risen sincelast week’s terror spree in Paris, the latest evidence that anti-Islam sentiment is rising in one of Europe’s most tolerant countries.

This video shows that the decrease in many families having children and this decreases the Population and How Immigration is keeping the population going in Europe ------



ISLAM TAKING OVER EUROPE ! Sharia law soon in Europe

This video is very scary ----it is not that long and you would do well to view it ------any thoughts on this

Isn't this what the Europeans did 200-300 years ago in North America? Don't we all come from immigrants?

What I do find interesting is that extremists Muslims (or any extremists period) do not realize that they can only protest against other countries practices, cultures and religions within a country that tolerates free speech. It seems beyond their consideration that they are not allowed to voice their own opinion against their own leaders, their country of origin or their religion for fear of death. They are in an extreme bondage to a patriotism and servitude to an unquestionable regime that disguises as religion at times and all this as a faction of a people who do not even dare to question why.

 

[Luce NDs]

I'm-a-grant ... started with just a scratch of clues as gift (buried for some time, as I needed to do some digging for adept) was expected with the gift of soul to expand on that but many say save the soul ... shelve that one ... for it could be bad for autocracy if the commoners did some thinking about integration! Thus from the dirty low down perspective I probably should be toasted at the steak too as heretic beef ... too much squeal in the slow turning weals of the Gods of the light side ... not a heavy thought to be found ... bottomed out in the Blackpoll Maas Achre? Did you know that was assumed to not exist until recent times ... then up she come ...

 

[Pavlos Maros]

(This past Wednesday, I was to have facilitated a book presentation in seminary on the book "Allah: A Christian Response" by Miroslav Volf. However, due to a health concern, I was unable to attend the class I was to present it in. Since I'd prepared notes anyway, I thought I might open a dialogue here on the issue at hand. I'll begin with Volf's question which I was planning on opening the class discussion with...)

Volf writes, "…for Christians the question is this: Is the God whose final self-expression is found in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ the same God as the God of the Qur’an?” – Location 594 of the Kindle edition.

Well it is known that Judeism and Christianity and Islam are all abrahamic religions under the same god. However as no gods have ever been shown to exist. it's a bit of a moot point as Quezacotl could be the one true god, or even Bumba, etc.. in order to truly discuss whether the god of the bible is the same as the god of the Qu'ran, it is within your best interest to establish some truth in it's existence. isn't it!
However as we are simply assuming a god exists the any god will do. but lets say that the Jews follow the OT and your god is the god of the OT, the Qu'ran is almost a direct copy of the Hebrew bible so they are following the same god as the Jews el'ohim(al'lah)-(yahwah)

 

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

the Qu'ran is almost a direct copy of the Hebrew bible

In about the same way as a mountain is a direct copy of a human being. Sheesh.
Oh, I'm sorry, I just figured out what you mean. A manual for a car is a direct copy of a biology text book. They both contain binding, ink and paper.

 

[blackbelt1961]

the Qu'ran is almost a direct copy of the Hebrew bible so they are following the same god as the Jews el'ohim(al'lah)-(yahwah)

 

[Luce NDs]

For people that do not admire the non existent ... what would they do with abstract, imaginations and haunting incarnations ... things that appear as isn't due to the power of mind (primarily imaginary, or a mirage on the brain)?

In their ridiculous state ... would subtle concerns be under their radar?

Now I for one find that ridiculous as looking at them from spanning the line they refuse to cross ... as they fear not getting back to their previously formed self built up on the lies they were told afore hand ... and they never investigated a thing as prescribed in the bible where is says: "Test all things even that moral pool you think you stand upon!" Recall that it is dark ...
Thus for the religious folk of God that didn't wish to know god ... IDs really out there in a virtue of search for excellence beyond the present point where they've been shafted. Sort of a metaphor of what church did in the Middle Ages to anybody questioning everything ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Can you thus see how the ridiculous goes sublime? Yet they still can't see ... for their light was unreal or too simple ... and went out!

If one extracts some paraffin's from the fat heads and soak it into a spongy form ... it might create a frothier look that can reach across quantum time ... that chance concern as Anas? Multiple perspectives are better ... as anyone really out there knows when taking flight from the cuckoo's nest ... people that laugh at anything that they find alien! Is that Cereus or just Piscine in the Eire ...

 

[Pavlos Maros]

In about the same way as a mountain is a direct copy of a human being. Sheesh.
Oh, I'm sorry, I just figured out what you mean. A manual for a car is a direct copy of a biology text book. They both contain binding, ink and paper.

See below.

So you two have read the Qu'ran in it's entirety, and done a comparison study of the two. Ok I didn't know that! Are you sure! Really are your sure! My bullst deflects are going crazy.

 

[Mystic]

Specialists in comparative religion generally strongly object to attempts to seek common ground between religions. Such efforts invariably dumb down the traditions in question and overlook key differences such as:. (1) Allah offers uncertain grace, so that Muslims are never totally confident that their pious living is sufficient for salvation. The confident grace offered by Yahweh is a major reason why an estimated 1 million Muslims have converted to Christianity and now attend secret house churches there. (2) The thought of Allah loving us enough to incarnate in the form of God's Son in unthinkable within Islam. (3) Jesus' teachings about loving one's enemies, turning the other cheek, and praying for the happiness of those who abuse them has no reali parallel in Islam. This the main reason why another Muslim said he had converted to Christianity.

(4) Also Muslims are guilty of the ancient Gnostic heresy of Docetism---that Jesus only seemed to have been crucified. Quoting the Quran:

Sura 4.157 “And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa [Jesus] son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure

 

[blackbelt1961]

See below.
So you two have read the Qu'ran in it's entirety, and done a comparison study of the two. Ok I didn't know that! Are you sure! Really are your sure! My bullst deflects are going crazy.

I have heard Much BS said about the bible over the yrs, but this is a first. It doesn't even merit a response just a big

 

[revsdd]

See below.
So you two have read the Qu'ran in it's entirety, and done a comparison study of the two. Ok I didn't know that! Are you sure! Really are your sure! My bullst deflects are going crazy.

I actually have read the Quran from cover to cover and I think it was a bit of a stretch on your part to suggest that the Quran was basically a "direct copy" of the Hebrew Scriptures. The Hebrews would certainly be surprised to hear that, given the amount of material about Jesus and Mary that's found in the Quran. You'd be on firmer ground in suggesting that the Quran is based on many of the same stories/traditions that are found in the Hebrew Scriptures - and for that matter on some of the stories found in the New Testament. But the Quran does put a different spin on those stories/traditions. Certainly we can say that Islam was influenced by both Judaism and Christianity.

Comparative religion is a fascinating study. Way back in the "then times" when I was pursuing my M.Div degree one of my highest marks as I recall was in the required course on Comparative Religion. But comparative religion has to respect the differences between the various faith systems rather than just looking for the common ground, or trying to blend everything together.

 

[Mendalla]

Specialists in comparative religion generally strongly object to attempts to seek common ground between religions. Such efforts invariably dumb down the traditions in question and overlook key differences such as:. (1) Allah offers uncertain grace, so that Muslims are never totally confident that their pious living is sufficient for salvation. The confident grace offered by Yahweh is a major reason why an estimated 1 million Muslims have converted to Christianity and now attend secret house churches there. (2) The thought of Allah loving us enough to incarnate in the form of God's Son in unthinkable within Islam. (3) Jesus' teachings about loving one's enemies, turning the other cheek, and praying for the happiness of those who abuse them has no reali parallel in Islam. This the main reason why another Muslim said he had converted to Christianity.

OTOH, is the contrast between the Muslim portrayal of God and the Christian portrayal of God much different from the contrast between the God who orders genocides in the early books of the Old Testament and the God who incarnated as Jesus to bring a message of Grace in the New?

Let's face it, the Muslims trace their line back to Abraham and their God is the God of Abraham as much as the Christian God is. Both have taken the God originally worshipped by the Jews and put different spins on it. We don't have three Gods here (Jewish, Christian, Muslim) but three (and, really, given the diversity of theology in all three, many more than that) understandings of one God.

Oh, and if we are going to play the warring credentials game, I have a senior level RS course on Islam under my belt and a Qu'ran on my bookshelf that I do read from time to time. But, really, the warring credentials game is just that, a game.

And that's the end of this thread for me. I've been in too many discussions on this topic to think it will end in a happy place.