Muslims & Christians: Same God?

[Luce NDs]

Anon, a'mon, or just downright ominous singularity when God created a deus as advocate to keep heh in-line when dancing

That'd be the deviate causing diversity ... rites in the sacred passage?

 

[Neo]

"I find that many people are afraid to go outside their comfort zone, they are just getting used to believing what they believe in are not ready to take leaps of faith into new and (what must seem to them) crazy ideas. I don't believe that we are judged in "what" we believe, but rather in "how" we believe. " Neo

Nicely noticed. My experience suggests that many who "correctly believe in Jesus" would refuse him should they meet along the way. Some would support his arrest and termination as a "threat to national security".

Plato noticed that writing might be more of a hindrance than a help. Those who confuse scriptural memory with the living word inspiring those scriptures well exemplify what Plato points to.

Thanks Geofee. I also think that many who say they "believe in Jesus" today may not recognized him if they were to bump into Him on the street. They may be looking for the Jesus of 2,000 years ago, or they may be expecting him to return only through the Church. Either way because of people's preconceived ideas they may miss His initial approach altogether. "Like a thief in the night" we are told of His initial approach. But eventually, of course, the predictions say that "every eye will see Him". But even then, I suspect, there will still be those who dogmatically refuse to accept Him based on some predetermined concept of how He should've look or how He should've reappeared.

One of the main tenants of Buddhism is that we shouldn't, in general, become too "attached" to the impermanent. Where the latter could just as well apply to ideologies as it could to material wealth. Religions and their isms should be like ladders that are used to gain access to a roof. Once on the roof, the ladder has fulfilled it's need and must be discarded. Or left behind for those that follow.

Who will be most harmed by the approaching new creation? Those who manufacture diversions and distractions by which people and places are exploited and polluted? Chief among them will be those who make billions by the promotion and prosecution of war. Not far behind are those who endorse the enterprise by benediction and doxologocal affirmation.

I read once that "banks" would be one of the last strongholds who would not accept the Christ upon His return. And this'll be because banks represent the antithesis of one of the main principals that the Christ will teach, and that is the concept of "sharing" the wealth of the world with those who are in need.

As I walk along the opening way I hear many voices, from the doorways of many temples, calling me to enter the place of the one true scripture of the one true God. Age is teaching me to kindly smile as I politely decline. The one true God has need of neither scripture or temple.

The one true God is the living light which shines at the heart of each and all human being. Now we are seen as stars brightening the dark night sky. Soon we shall be seen as the first light of a breaking new day.

Anon....

George

 

[Luce NDs]

Could that spark a hope in a well-set distance at arm's length from the pure passionate side, that be an alternate 'eL ... like stuff done in the dark ... unseen infinites? God really is a peculiar mystery ... but mortals continue to lie about that fact ... can't get beyond the hard stuff ... the subjective form?

Even those out there (OBI) need something to amuse (th)eM!

 

[revjohn]

I find that many people are afraid to go outside their comfort zone, they are just getting used to believing what they believe in are not ready to take leaps of faith into new and (what must seem to them) crazy ideas. I don't believe that we are judged in "what" we believe, but rather in "how" we believe.

Isn't it interesting that this is always a fault of others?

Instead of us critically reflecting on how difficult it is for us to leave our comfort zones we tend to invest more energy on criticizing others who have difficulty leaving theirs.

And, more often than not, those we are critical of tend not to agree with the comfort zones we inhabit.

 

[Luce NDs]

And then we get the unique situation of people that don't believe there is anything beyond ... so the thoughts of out there are ignored as OBI. This happens without the integral idealism that call pull nothing and everything together once we get over the polity thing (extremism) that cannot be illustrated ... so there really is no icon for that except for the Zero Sum mode ... which humiliates us to lessor de tailings and thus we're down to it ... nothing tuit!

Tis an Eire horizon ... the great womb of space, with a wee bit between the ears for a taste of what's to come ...

Some say in a NDE they see little bright spots ... in the dark none-the-less!

 

[Neo]

Isn't it interesting that this is always a fault of others?

Instead of us critically reflecting on how difficult it is for us to leave our comfort zones we tend to invest more energy on criticizing others who have difficulty leaving theirs.

And, more often than not, those we are critical of tend not to agree with the comfort zones we inhabit.

I'm always trying to push the envelope of my belief structures John, which puts me on a continuous journey and a continuous struggle of discrimination where the things I believed yesterday may not make as much sense as what I believe today. And I'm quite sure that tomorrow will likely find myself questioning what I think is the truth today. At least I hope I so.

Becoming fixed on a particular belief structure, if that belief has gone past it's expiry date, is to become stagnated with a millstone of the past around our necks. We have to let go, keep moving and expanding the things we believe in. It's what being human is all about.

The danger, I've observed both in my own life and with others, is that at any given time believing that "this" is the truth or "that" is the truth restricts the truth to being "this" or "that". In other words, it's the difference between "reality" and "truth". Reality is how we perceive truth on any given day, whereas truth is the constant jewel, the holy grail we all strive for. The truth never changes, whereas reality is only a relative reality based on our own perception, our awareness, our comfort zones. Detachment, especially when it comes to our comfort zones, is never an easy thing to do.

 

[revjohn]

Becoming fixed on a particular belief structure, if that belief has gone past it's expiry date, is to become stagnated with a millstone of the past around our necks.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. Agreeing with one or the other implies that I "know" something beyond my capacity or ability to know.

We have to . . .

I have always found this a tell.

It telegraphs something of vital importance to a particular individual and often that vital importance is not specific to the individual but rather something the individual believes is universal to all.

It prefaces a particular belief structure which itself is fixed and in turn frames our perspective in certain ways. Like the sacred cow we name "progress" it never really matters in the sense of progress towards what (which is really the only way progress makes sense), what it really points to is motion and folk feel that as long as they are moving they are making progress.

No matter how many hours I ride the merry-go round I never seem to make much progress simply because every single moment of motion is cancelled by some moment to come. I devote equal energy to all 360 degrees of the circle and in the end I might as well not have gone anywhere. If I decide to devote all energy to one degree of the circle I will make progress for certain. I may not like where I end up but I will not be in the same place I started.

 

[Luce NDs]

Is body-soul detachment possible in life or only during special times ... that some people say are to die for?

Does anybody know this state of mind when you see stars ... other than in the box'n ring?

Really ... go way wit' Jah ... some aberration of a John, Joan, Jonah of unknown origins ... Dr. Strange Love? Does thoughtful baggage need to be disposed of ... temporarily? Air it out ... the garbage in your soul ...

Some say journaling assists ... but I'm not allowed to know such things ... the book of love says knowledge is evil ... to a point!

 

[airclean33]

for those interested, since airclean33 (a New air freshener! cleans out spots, unwanted guest on the couch, satan herself, now available at Canadatire) mentioned it, that picture, I did some research and this is what I came up with

That picture seems to be done by Jessica Galbreth, a self-identified Christian who calls herself 'The Vintage Angel Artist' who sells her works -- she also does things like quotes, fobs, lockets, etc Her art reminds me of the famous artist, Arthur Rackham

I still don't know why airclean33 put up that image -- I guess he is intentionally looking for images that remind him of Islam?

I've looked at a better image of the one he gave, and those three dots look like dots & not stars to me

Pareidolia can be fun

Yes of course they look like dots. The crescent Moon looks like a slice of pie to me. Buy the way that is probably not the moon goddess . She is not a woman , it's a bear in drag . Yes I see you may be right, I'll clean my glasses and have another look.

 

[Neo]

We have to . . .

I have always found this a tell.

It telegraphs something of vital importance to a particular individual and often that vital importance is not specific to the individual but rather something the individual believes is universal to all.

It prefaces a particular belief structure which itself is fixed and in turn frames our perspective in certain ways. Like the sacred cow we name "progress" it never really matters in the sense of progress towards what (which is really the only way progress makes sense), what it really points to is motion and folk feel that as long as they are moving they are making progress.

No matter how many hours I ride the merry-go round I never seem to make much progress simply because every single moment of motion is cancelled by some moment to come. I devote equal energy to all 360 degrees of the circle and in the end I might as well not have gone anywhere. If I decide to devote all energy to one degree of the circle I will make progress for certain. I may not like where I end up but I will not be in the same place I started.

I believe that everything I say and everything you say and everything everyone else says should always be prefaced with the words "I believe". It's not always practical to do so.

I believe one of the only truths that human beings can be really assured of is that we can't be assured of anything. Everything changes, including our perceptions of the truth.

 

[Delightful Life]

Yes of course they look like dots. The crescent Moon looks like a slice of pie to me. Buy the way that is probably not the moon goddess . She is not a woman , it's a bear in drag . Yes I see you may be right, I'll clean my glasses and have another look.

And now that you know the creator of said picture, I'm sure you can try contacting her and seeing just what she 'meant' by that picture?

Keep having fun, it shows constantly -- I'm glad us humourless & stuck-up Liberals don't get you down.

 

[Luce NDs]

WO Mitchell was said to respond to comments on one of his novels (in a presentation at UNB) ... that he never intended some of the things that were interpreted from the novel.

So perhaps under the premise that we should believe nothing of what we hear and only half of what we read ... we should test everything!

Would that screw up some people of kerygma trying to be pers ways-ive about things so old they are probably wrought-in words ... worm eaten and all that holy stuff? Might even explain the mysterious black marks across the pages ...

 

[Luce NDs]

@Inannawhimsey

Does God as the bible, or the word have a pile a Black Marks against it, or on heis persona? I can't sex that persona because all indications in the Vatican Art Work illustrating angels show a lot of missing gene Talia and lots of great boobs (blunders for male angels like Gabriel who wrestled with Jacob). A good Jew wouldn't have contact at night with a dark female angel under Jewish Laws about contact with strange broads with alien knowledge ... would he?

Unless Jaqob was a Jaqueline as Jaqo-been (beforehand) ... in a redaction of tense gender by authority with power to do sex changes for eunuch situations ... where no sex was required only intercourse on alien dialogue ... thus much coarse dialogue was exchanged as an awful sroo' up in understanding of weird ancient tongues ... by women that auld they must be drawn or druid into witch-like apparitions ... close to an incarnation! Something defined as: "apparently not!"

There is even some rumour that some eunuchs had female genitalia put on them as part of husbandry that would prevent recreations of eunuch types ... when they were trying to breed psychopaths and the like. They appeared to be successful by appearance of the logical ends we see today from those coarse attempts at genetic alterations. Consider the productions of the Caesars and the leaders in Judea ... who where less than perfect ideals when it came to being gentile with the neighbours, etc.

 

[Luce NDs]

Chaos in the bible? Is that quite apparent in a book on love and passion that is so obviously irrationally based action ... thus someone would say let it be ... and is was! It is said occasionally the Gods scroo' up ... gives the angels lift ... like haute balloons in some cultures of science ... thus cross-over functions! This would allow for Dark Arts as well as Dark Observations of peoples in shadowy situations where they would definitely blow the candles out ... art work in the rye?

Aah love to dais fore ... something that would logically bring a person to their knees if they had good sense to outrace the shotgun ... today they get married without the blast and if the hunt fails the search goes on ... heaven must be out there somewhere ...

 

[Jaebius]

In Chapters 4 and 5 of his book, Volf mounts an argument that Christians worship the same God that Muslims do.

The crucial question he says is whether Christians and Muslims refer to the same object when they speak of God or Allah.

Volf offers that there are three plausible approaches to the issue of showing that Muslims have the same object in mind that Christians do...

1. Looking for some common elements in the way Muslims and Christians describe their God.

2. Examining the common Scripture that Christians and Muslims share. However, he states, in the minds of Muslims and Christians today they do not have a common scripture.

3. Deciding whether the descriptions Christians and Muslims give of God are sufficiently similar for us to claim that they speak of the same object when they refer to God.

The idea of sufficient similarity is an important one to Volf. He suggests two rules that he feels should be followed when considering similarities in Muslim and Christian understandings of God. These two are...

1. Concentrate on what is common.

2. Keep an eye out for what is decisively different.

He also suggests two approaches that can be taken in considering whether the Muslim God and the Christian God are one and the same.

The first approach is the differences approach, in which differences are decisive and similarities don’t count. Volf states that if this approach is used by Christians, they will judge that the God of the Qur'an is not their God, but rather see him as an alien deity, a false God.

The second approach is the commonalities approach, in which similarities are important and differences matter only when they signal major incompatibilities. Volf states that if this approach is used by Christians, they will might just possibly conclude that Muslims have a common God with them.

Which approach is correct? Volf prefers the Commonalities Approach. He sees it as being more loving.

 

[Luce NDs]

In Chapters 4 and 5 of his book, Volf mounts an argument that Christians worship the same God that Muslims do.

The crucial question he says is whether Christians and Muslims refer to the same object when they speak of God or Allah.

Volf offers that there are three plausible approaches to the issue of showing that Muslims have the same object in mind that Christians do...

1. Looking for some common elements in the way Muslims and Christians describe their God.

2. Examining the common Scripture that Christians and Muslims share. However, he states, in the minds of Muslims and Christians today they do not have a common scripture.

3. Deciding whether the descriptions Christians and Muslims give of God are sufficiently similar for us to claim that they speak of the same object when they refer to God.

The idea of sufficient similarity is an important one to Volf. He suggests two rules that he feels should be followed when considering similarities in Muslim and Christian understandings of God. These two are...

1. Concentrate on what is common.

2. Keep an eye out for what is decisively different.

He also suggests two approaches that can be taken in considering whether the Muslim God and the Christian God are one and the same.

The first approach is the differences approach, in which differences are decisive and similarities don’t count. Volf states that if this approach is used by Christians, they will judge that the God of the Qur'an is not their God, but rather see him as an alien deity, a false God.

The second approach is the commonalities approach, in which similarities are important and differences matter only when they signal major incompatibilities. Volf states that if this approach is used by Christians, they will might just possibly conclude that Muslims have a common God with them.

Which approach is correct? Volf prefers the Commonalities Approach. He sees it as being more loving.

Are both perspectives: common and uncommon differences a bit crazy if you stepped back on looked at these attributes from beyond? Gives rise to the concept of a' dam ni s'm! That's a Latin expression for too far out to be large enough to see and thus reverence for wee things that Romans didn't have. Sort of like the Hebrew-Jude'an dissociation presently isolated in the human soul overcome with Passions ... IB Singer's collective ballads! WE can go on and on about what we don't know ...

After all Christians are devoted to the black pool of the mind (darkness of soul) and other things that can be driven out, but less easily retrieved ... and the children of Moe Hammed translated with high-brew in twist is pool (Moe) 've black (Ham) and when consumed with one another in conflict we end up with nothing left or Burnham a burnt pig, two of which is an aboriginal swirl in which those hamming it up are smoke 'n ... contrary to Jewish traditions for which pigs are used to cultivate the land ... or a term used for lesser beings when some observers find pigs smarter than many humans ... they will squeal by their rites to etude in de dirt! The glee of mud wrestling ... a benefit had when near but not right in the clear water revival ... can happen under the bridge down in GEO Gaia ... but we're not sure what that exactly means because there are variable offshoots of the prinicuple expression ... a spectre of words in evolution?

God bless Wo Mitchel in his writ about "Who Has Seen The Wind" as it does bloe bi ... but does cool beta 'n the Saular winds ... that's haute ... kin-da like ET ... up there as the great wom'Bat, a jumed up thing as my grandfather said as the devil is unmentionable as god-shad-ow ! Eire now don't disturb the waters ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Did you know that past traditions believed the mind a haute item cooled by the heart ... as mind was a dark concept just off the press and virtual unknown?

Now scientists tell us that the brain, although 2% of the body weight, uses 20% of the oxygen in Eire ... a supposition that just seems crazy (unless there's a spark in there) when looked at in balancing the physics ot the thing and ignoring the energies; positives and negative ... as in the spread of white and dark energies versus the material of the same attributes or genre ... genre being more or less a general unknown essence as a state of more inclusive or greater mind, still grinding down in Miller's Cave ... that too is in GEO Gaia ... perhaps a sigh'n, or noisy icon! These do go round ...

If there is spark in the hard to arrive at mind set ... is this a metaphorical pyre in a diamond ... giving a bluestone? Pure alchemii if you can relate ... tw'ID!

 

[chansen]

--Hi Chansen yes I agree , Christian have not always treated those who are not Christians as they should have. So no now I must ask . Are you Chinese, Two wong's make a wright?

Okay, sorry I missed this, but you reeaaalllly have to stay away from ethnic jokes. They're like a metaphorical no-fly zone. If you can't skillfully avoid the multiple hazards of making ethnic jokes, just don't go there. It will, and did, go badly for you.

As for the point you made in regrettable fashion, you're using the violence of some Muslims to delegitimize Islam. By your own argument, Christianity is also delegitimized. Consider the bible verses Donald Rumsfeld put on intelligence briefings to George W. Bush alone.

Of course, you making Christianity look bad is a daily occurrence here. This time you just chose more cringeworthy approach.

 

[Luce NDs]

Okay, sorry I missed this, but you reeaaalllly have to stay away from ethnic jokes. They're like a metaphorical no-fly zone. If you can't skillfully avoid the multiple hazards of making ethnic jokes, just don't go there. It will, and did, go badly for you.

As for the point you made in regrettable fashion, you're using the violence of some Muslims to delegitimize Islam. By your own argument, Christianity is also delegitimized. Consider the bible verses Donald Rumsfeld put on intelligence briefings to George W. Bush alone.

Of course, you making Christianity look bad is a daily occurrence here. This time you just chose more cringeworthy approach.

Then there was the great Levite that some said was Leviathan because he enlightened everything and thus God had to compose herself out of de light as giving birth to such foolishness! One eL've a black lady! Now a great mystery because of things we didn't wish to know ... and knowing nothing goes on and on like people that have the BS that they do ... but still don't due to the mortal aspect ... merde!

The Descartes IAn light of philosophy of chasing the philosophical hard thing ... not possible when mortally limited ...

 

[Jaebius]

In Chapter 6, Volf identifies three errors which he believes many religious people tend to make.

Some, he writes, believe rightly, but act wrongly. Others believe in the right God, but serve the wrong God. Still others, he suggests believe wrongly, but worship rightly. In concern to the latter group, Volf thinks it possible that some Muslims and Christians who have a deficient view of God's nature and God's commandments nevertheless worship the one true God by living out godly lives.

His position is that those who love their neighbors as themselves worship the one true God.

If love is from God, he suggests, then all genuine love is from God. Those who love do so through God in that God's love works through them. With God's help, Volf argues, people who love do God's will. If they love, Volf says, then in a very real way they know God, even if they don't adequately acknowledge him. They worship him, he states, without believing properly.

Volf then suggests that people speak to their worship of God through their practices. He writes that a pattern of wrong practices overshadows correct beliefs about God and exposes those who engage in them as worshipers of idols, and also that wrong beliefs about God do not invalidate right practices as worship required by God.

Christians and Muslims worship the same God, Volf contends, when they love him and love their neighbors as themselves. Further, he argues that this conclusion provides a solid foundation for Christians and Muslims to engage one another in fruitful public debate about human flourishing and the common good and to practice the solidarity necessary for living peacefully in a common world.