Lust of the flesh, porn, erotica........

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

What? Knowing that your image had been a component of pleasure for many people?

Might be a pretty creepy realization. Those people could be anyone and they had no choice.

Any porn I’ve ever seen, which is not a lot but not none, i’ve either felt mentally assaulted by the acting (even benign sounding stuff like husband and wife have fun on couch) because the woman gets treated rough and there’s hardly any foreplay and little chance she’s really enjoying it...the guys are doing it wrong (because it’s from a male perspective) and it’s an insult to my intelligence to watch... or more realistic stuff I feel like is none of my business, and it’s not right to be “in their bedroom”. Or it’s such “artistic” erotica it’s just weird and possibly interesting for a minute... but not a turn on. None of that is appealing. I’m not anti sex but I don’t think watching porn is healthy. I don’t think society has given it enough thought.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Who had no choice? If you're arguing that the person whose photo is out there has no choice about who views it, that could be said of any number of endeavours. An author can't prevent readers from coming to conclusions they'd never intended.

I think we make something "special" out of the naked human body that is unrelated to its "value". My dog rarely wears clothes and is quite irritated when I insist on a winter jacket.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Who had no choice? If you're arguing that the person whose photo is out there has no choice about who views it, that could be said of any number of endeavours. An author can't prevent readers from coming to conclusions they'd never intended.

I think we make something "special" out of the naked human body that is unrelated to its "value". My dog rarely wears clothes and is quite irritated when I insist on a winter jacket.

We are not dogs. And it is my opinion that actors having sex, complete with close up shots of private parts where their bodies joining, is very different from other endeavours like writing a book. It’s an intimate behaviour. And if we try to desensitize to that fact, we actually lose something from human sexuality. Porn has been successful in devaluing sexuality.

 

[Luce NDs]

Humans do have a certain anima nature ... and the animus is a rare state ... thin spirits?

Anima's respect human only if fearful ... the animus can bring fear into the beastie! Some humans prefer to do without the muse part ... or believe animal emotions ... may substitute for thought!

Respect for the muse part is a gem ... not a one way driven force without confinement as jarred by brute forces of BS!

Is two way sort of cheeky like Jesus references to turning on the brute with the other cheek? I see an elephant sitting on some tyrants ... white pachyderm as spiritual terror!

Perhaps an eccentric perspective as derived form ecce homo ... I.E. "observe the man ... and then ecclesiastes ... les I astes in an ecco!

The cheekiness continues for the brute systems ... under their law ... subtle revenges for those denying the Shadow and they don't even have to try and live above it ...

One may substitute ID and Ego, incubus and succubus, or any number of transliterations ... but you can't speak of these things outwardly without inducing some sense of mystery, unknown ideals or dark Ness ... a' Nell 've a situation if in another Shue!

All the above is for those that didn't wish to comprehend thin space anyhow ...

For example did anyone view the congressional proceedings today ... anima souss ... sous scrofa ... pork bellied politics? What a pig sty ... and are we improved with our leader hams ... butts proliferate?

Respect degenerates in the anima world with only limited mousse to go roundas ... frothy! The models encourage disrespect in their following ... look how things are degrading!

Expect less not Moor ...

 

[BetteTheRed]

There's definitely some lines here, but some porn/erotica is quite tasteful and not manipulative at all. I'm thinking of the quite lovely line drawings in The Joy of Sex.

And no, we're not dogs. We're not bonobos, either, but much of our thoughts and feelings about sex and sexuality are very related to our mammal nature.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

There's definitely some lines here, but some porn/erotica is quite tasteful and not manipulative at all. I'm thinking of the quite lovely line drawings in The Joy of Sex.

And no, we're not dogs. We're not bonobos, either, but much of our thoughts and feelings about sex and sexuality are very related to our mammal nature.

Sure. And they’re also passing. Somebody may not want something they had the mammalian impulse to do and film in their 20s, out there forever. At some point they may go...”Eww. Omg, who saw that!?” And maybe they’d be horrified to know it was you (like, how traumatized do you think Luce’s acquaintance’s daughter who was stripping is now?! Ew, Gaaawd that’d be horrifying)...if we take advantage of the availability of it without thinking that those are real people who need to be respected even if they haven’t gotten to a more self reflective point yet... maybe that just makes us creeps. It doesn’t matter that it’s legal, it still feels wrong.

 

[Luce NDs]

Considerate mesoamerica ... or midwestern wild ... sects!

 

[Mendalla]

Somebody may not want something they had the mammalian impulse to do and film in their 20s, out there forever. At some point they may go...”Eww. Omg, who saw that!?”

People make decisions they regret all the time and we generally accept that the person making the decisions is accountable for those decisions. Why is society accountable for this one?

 

[BetteTheRed]

It is entirely a different kettle of fish if there is a photo/s out there that was/were non-consensual. I know of people that this happened to, and it was quite unfair.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

What’s the cost to society to slow down the porn industry and look out for young women (younger people but the women are usually in their early 20s) who get into it when there’s a clear power differential and the consumers are mostly men... vs. the cost to society to not care about their decisions, how they made them, for whom, and if they understood the consequences (for example feeling very uncomfortable and even exploited later in life that they sold their rights to their intimate images)?

 

[Ritafee]

Learn about the corruption within the porn industry and the direct links porn has to sex trafficking.


Related: How Sex Trafficking And Exploitation Blend In With Today’s Mainstream Porn


not all of the porn they consume is consensual and children and adults are exploited in the industry every day

Fight the New Drug is a non-religious and non-legislative 501(c)3 nonprofit organization that aims to educate youth on the harmful effects of pornography using only science, facts, and personal accounts.

Founded in 2009, our organization is all about giving visibility to the already-existing data, studies, and personal experiences that illustrate how porn is anything but harmless entertainment. We also create resources to help friends, families, youth, partners, parents, and community groups have healthy and productive conversations about the proven harms of porn.

Home - Fight the New Drug

Fight the New Drug is a non-religious and non-legislative nonprofit that exists to provide individuals the opportunity to make an informed decision regarding pornography by raising awareness on its harmful effects using only science, facts, and personal accounts.

fightthenewdrug.org

Brain, Heart, World - Docuseries about the harmful effects of porn.

Decades of studies from major institutions have demonstrated significant impacts of porn consumption on individuals, relationships, and society. WATCH NOW

brainheartworld.org

 

[revjohn]

In the Mary thread the idea of porn=lust of the flesh=sin was proposed by blackbelt. I disagreed with the notion that porn=lust of the flesh.

Perspective matters.

If we operate out of one perspective we can easily argue that pornography = sin and that it feeds lust. If we operate out of another perspective we can also easily argue that pornography does not necessarily equate to sin.

I think Christians could compellingly argue either position, though the first is probably easiest to champion.

In terms of the porn=lust of flesh, I understand that for many porn may trigger lust however I believe it is inappropriate to declare porn=lust a universal definition. Is the conflation of porn=lust the fact that it depicts images of lust? Or triggers lust (for some)? I see an argument for the former, but not for the latter.

I am inclined to agree with your position. Food is not responsible for gluttony. The desire exists in the heart of the glutton to use food. Pornography, likewise, is not responsible for lust. Lust exists whether or not pornography is present. Pornography makes satisfying lust easier just as food makes satisfying gluttony easier. Neither is the root cause.

I, personally, find most pornographic images I have seen to be troubling. When I view porn I see exploited women and embodied images of male sexual fantasies. I do not found porn arousing, or inciting of lust at all. Generally, it leaves me feeling icky. I have no desire to view it. The notion of porn=lust of the flesh does not speak to my lived experience and I do not identify with blackbelt's definition. Granted, my exposure to porn has been limited.

I expect that the genders are hardwired differently and that most porn is directed towards male susceptibilities than women susceptibilities. Males are generally noted for going from 0 to 60 with regards to arousal at a mere glance. Women, not so much. So there is a layered element to the discussion that forces us to examine particularities rather than assume universalities.

Of course, by attacking the medium for the sin we completely ignored the personal responsibility not to commit said sin.

What I do found potentially arousing, and most certainly attractive, is an image of a middle-aged man with salt and pepper hair in the L L Bean catalogue. Is this my porn? Do I need to toss the catalogues? Does LL Bean = porn = sin?

I don't think so. Mind you if you are hiding LL Bean catalogues around the house to ogle in your private time there might be an issue needing some help.

I think Philippians 4: 8 is rather informative. It doesn't give a list of sins to avoid. It exhorts the Christian to focus on things that are pure, noble, commendable and the like. Which suggests, to me at any rate, that the problem is not the things that are impure, ignoble or reprehensible it is the time I spend focussing on them which becomes the problem.

There are Christians who love to wax eloquent about what is a sin and the punishment for sin and have very little time to testify about the impact of grace in their lives. I think this demonstrates what preoccupies their minds for good or ill.

 

[Luce NDs]

Poo no graphics ... blind visors!

 

[Ritafee]

Culture Reframed is the first organization to recognize and address hypersexualized media and pornography as “the public health crisis of the digital age.” Founded by internationally renowned scholar and activist Dr. Gail Dines, Culture Reframed is comprised by a multidisciplinary team of experts and scholars helping to build the public’s capacity to deal with mainstream hardcore online pornography. Culture Reframed is a tax-exempt, 501(c)3 nonprofit organization.
Porn Teaches Kids Choking, Strangulation are Sex Acts
By Culture Reframed December 5, 2019 For Parents, Harms of Porn, Porn's Impact on Kids

News & stories - Culture Reframed

Browse our news and updates to learn more about the latest research and thought leadership in the field as well as exciting upcoming events at Culture Reframed.

www.culturereframed.org

 

[Mendalla]

Forget about it. Not worth my time.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Oh, FFS. Sex for money has always been available. "Public health crisis of the digital age"? What is different today than yesterday for voluntary sex workers?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

It's not worth my time either. First world problem (from this thread's perspective). I can think of far better causes than this to fight for in our society - thinking of it as a sexual freedom issue (for viewers) is a first world problem, bourgeois concern, in my opinion - and negates the bigger problems with it are the linked to the same problems in the rest of society - consumer culture, overconsumption, and exploitation of other humans for money that happens in many forms and this one is one of the worst. If there are positives to it that are an issue of sexual freedom for the makers of porn - and there are a few exceptions - they exist somewhere within a cesspool of corruption and exploitation, and are the exception not the rule, that takes some effort to find, and there are more worthwhile hobbies. People who support a robust sex industry seem to connect any objection to it or distaste for it to religious morality or prudishness (I've been derided and humiliated and all kinds of assumptions about my sexuality and nasty comments made to me personally over this and related topics - by some in this crowd who never apologized - so I hesitate to give my opinion) and I think those people need to stop using that as an excuse and realize there are plenty of other reasons to have negative views on it. Some people have more objections to fast food than to porn...but they don't connect that to religious morality - and I would argue that porn is an even more insidiously harmful problem than fast food.

 

[Ritafee]

Sex for money has always been available.

Forget about it. Not worth my time.

The view that sex work is just a job like any other job depends for its surface plausibility on considerable naiveté about the conditions of life for most prostituted persons, but also on a convenient forgetfulness about some of the most central and familiar meanings of sex. It is morally important across many contexts for sex to be mutually desired, rather than merely consensual. Furthermore, the typical harms of unwanted sex are greatly amplified when the right to impose such sex on another person is thought to have been bought and paid for.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

The porn I've seen that I found degrading to women - which was usually my partner's ideas to watch, or I felt pressured that maybe I was really just a prude not giving it a chance, or maybe it'll add some spark to our sex life blah blah - I can't unsee, and I didn't have a choice all the way along in every frame, until after I'd seen it...I didn't consent to see 'that'...even though I consented to see 'something' by and for consenting adults, I didn't consent to see the moment where someone was being degraded by men and looked like they were even having trouble faking their enjoyment. Even if I turned it off right away, I couldn't unsee that few seconds. That's how it actually feels like mental assault - I feel like I didn't want to see that and I feel icky for having done so - I also feel like I disrespected the woman "performing" - and I'd rather not go looking to try to find something that doesn't feel like mental assault, when my imagination works fine without porn. Not only that, but the men I've been with who watched a lot of porn made me feel pressured to do things I don't enjoy because porn dictates to them that I am supposed to and if I don't they'll be disappointed and go looking for someone else who does enjoy (or pretends to enjoy) being treated like an object...and I was conditioned to think that was an acceptable way to think about myself and my worth - and it's not.

 

[Luce NDs]

The best example of BDSM ,,, to be or not to be married?

Tis conditional ... whether it is a good spot, bad, ugly or beautiful state of mind ... sometimes worth a double think! Thus two sides of the psyche ... absolutes (determinate) and abstracts (that indeterminate hammering)!

Thus we chit away with the chipper type ... forms cut out of stone? Is there meaning to a Black AD onus? The tapestry drops ...