Luke 6: A Verse (or Two) at a Time

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paradox3 said:
How do you respond to the idea of Jesus praying to God all night long?
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My view on this
Jesus is about to choose His Disciples and retreats to pray to His Father -----Jesus does nothing on His own ---He takes instruction from His Father ----so ---For me I would say He prayed to get instructions on who he was to picked for His Disciples and where He was to go to get them and also to ask His Father to open their hearts and mind to His call so that they would follow Him when He called to them -----

These Disciples left their boats --families etc and followed Jesus immediately when He called them ------their Ears ---Hearts and Mind were pre prepared for the Call ------ By His Father -----
 
unsafe said:
Jesus does nothing on His own ---He takes instruction from His Father
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Which, I guess, is an interesting aspect of Jesus we haven't touched on here yet. He was very much in touch and in tune with God's Will, or what he perceived as God's Will (obviously whether you think he really was depends on your beliefs) and this all-night prayer vigil is quite in keeping with that.
 
We Humans do not have the stamina to pray all night -----and to get prayers answered now there is protocol that is laid out in scripture -----also we are Not To have long winded Prayers nor are we to have repetitive prayers as per scripture --like repeating a Rosary ----Or Repeating the Lords Prayer ----these are repetitive prayers -----
 
The verse mentions that the disciples were also called Apostles. In addition to learning from the master (as disciples do) they will later be sent out by Jesus.
 
Waterfall said:
Anyone know the names of the original 12 disciples?
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We will see Luke's list tomorrow. There are some discrepancies in the lists/ names in books of the New Testament. You can google charts which compare the different versions.
 
I remember a Sunday School song which began:

There was Simon called Peter,
And Andrew his brother,
James and John,
Now you name another.

That's all I have inyemory bank and I haven't been able to trace the song.
 
paradox3 said:
Why would God be desirous of all nighters and long periods of prayer & fasting?
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Mendalla said:
Um, no. Fasting and extended periods of sleeplessness are definitely medically harmful regardless of what Jesus and Paul think. Healthy people and people experienced with them can certainly do them safely which is why they are a part of almost every religious tradition. However, as P3 suggests, some health conditions, both mental and physical, mean these practices are definitely not for everyone and can be a safety issue for some. Even in Islam, people with certain medical conditions are exempted from the Ramadan fast. Consult your doctor before engaging as they say.
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This comment ignores the fact that Jesus pulled an all-nighter prayer vigil only once to our knowledge. The point is that He and Paul taught us the value of long prayer vigils, a practice we generally ignore to our spiritual disadvantage. Also fasts from 24-72 hours can have wonderful health benefits:

www.healthline.com

8 Health Benefits of Fasting, Backed by Science

From weight loss to improved blood sugar control, fasting can affect your health in many impressive ways. Learn 8 health benefits of fasting — backed by science.
www.healthline.com www.healthline.com

But in any case, the central issue of my post is the value placed by Jesus and Paul on long prayer vigils and I stand by my charge that paradox, like most people, is merely looking for an excuse to avoid the way of Jesus and Paul.
 
Fasting in the Old Testament was done mainly for repentance and to get God to move on the persons behalf -----read all --just posting this ---


  1. OCCASIONS OF FASTING IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
    1. THE "DAY OF ATONEMENT"...
      1. Lev 16:29-31; 23:26-32; Num 29:7
      2. This was the only fast commanded by the Law, to be observed on the tenth day of the seventh month
      3. Though not called "fasting", the phrase "afflicting one's soul" was understood to refer to fasting
        1. Cf. Ps 69:10 ("chastened my soul with fasting")
        2. Cf. Ac 27:9 (where the term "Fast" refers to the Day of Atonement)
      4. The use of the phrase "afflict one's soul" to refer to fasting suggests a PURPOSE of fasting:
        1. To have an affect on the SOUL (not particularly the body)
        2. The goal of such affliction or chastening we shall notice later
        3. Other FASTS IN THE OLD TESTAMENT...
    2. -- People often fasted without specific commandment in time of distress; some were communal affairs while others were acts of the private individual
      1. THEY FASTED IN WAR, OR AT THE THREAT OF IT
        1. Israel fasted at Bethel in the war against the Benjamites - Judg 20:26
        2. Also at Mizpah in the Philistine war - 1Sa 7:6
        3. THEY FASTED WHEN LOVED ONES WERE SICK
          1. David fasted and wept for his son while the boy was ill - 2Sa 12:16-23
          2. The psalmist also mentions fasting for his enemies - Ps 35:11-13
        4. THEY FASTED WHEN LOVED ONES DIED
          1. The men of Jabesh-gilead fasted seven days for Saul - 1 Sa 31:13; 1 Chron 10:12
          2. David and the people fasted for Saul and Jonathan - 2 Sa 1:12
        5. THEY FASTED WHEN THEY SOUGHT GOD'S FORGIVENESS
          1. Moses fasted forty days because of the sin of Israel - Deut 9:15-18
          2. Ahab fasted to be forgiven - 1Ki 21:17-29
          3. Nineveh fasted at the preaching of Jonah - Jonah 3:4-10
          4. Daniel fasted as he confessed the sins of Israel - Da 9:3-5
          5. The general fast at the communal reading of the Law by Ezra was an act of penitence - Neh 9:1-3
        6. THEY FASTED WHEN FACED WITH IMPENDING DANGER
          1. Jehoshaphat fasted when threatened by Edom - 2 Chron 20:3
          2. Ezra led a fast when seeking the favor of God toward his return from exile (a journey fraught with danger) - Ez 8:21
          3. Nehemiah fasted when he heard of the state of Jerusalem - Neh 1:4
          4. The Jews fasted when they heard that Haman had obtained the king's decree against them - Esth 4:3
          5. Esther and Mordecai fasted before she went before the king - Esth 4:16
        7. THEY SET UP FASTS TO COMMEMORATE CERTAIN CALAMITIES
      2. -- During and after the Exile special fasts were observed on the days the calamities had befallen Jerusalem
        1. The tenth of the fifth month was the burning of the Temple - Jer 52:12,13
        2. The second day of the seventh month was the murder of Gedaliah - 2Ki 25:23-95; Jer 41:1ff
        3. On the tenth day of the tenth month was the beginning of the siege of Jerusalem - 2Ki 25:1
        4. On the ninth day of the fourth was its fall - 2Ki 25:3,4
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Today Fasting is done to get us focused off of this world and on to God ------God has already moved on our behalf so Fasting today to get God to move in our lives is futile -----God sent His Son and now Jesus moves on our behalf when we Receive Him ----no fasting needed -----

Read all ---just posting this

www.gotquestions.org

Christian fasting - what does the Bible say? | GotQuestions.org

Christian fasting - what does the Bible say? Why should we fast? Does the New Testament command Christians to fast?
www.gotquestions.org

Fasting and prayer are often linked together (Luke 2:37; 5:33). Too often, the focus of fasting is on the lack of food. Instead, the purpose of fasting should be to take your eyes off the things of this world to focus completely on God.

Fasting is a way to demonstrate to God, and to ourselves, that we are serious about our relationship with Him. Fasting helps us gain a new perspective and a renewed reliance upon God

Fasting should be limited to a set time, especially when fasting from food. Extended periods of time without eating can be harmful to the body. Fasting is not intended to punish the flesh, but to redirect attention to God.

By taking our eyes off the things of this world, we can more successfully turn our attention to Christ. Fasting is not a way to get God to do what we want. Fasting changes us, not God. Fasting is not a way to appear more spiritual than others. Fasting is to be done in a spirit of humility and a joyful attitude.

Matthew 6:16-18 declares, “When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.”

I think Fasting when done benefits us Spiritually and the deeper Spiritual connection we have toward God brings health to our body --mind and Spirit -----
 
paradox3 said:
Your charge??? I thought we were here for open minded discussion, not to charge each other with making excuses for seeing things differently.
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"Open-minded discussion" implies honest debate and a willingness to consider, for example, that one's own approach to prayer conflicts with that taught and embodied by Jesus and Paul. As often noted here, UCCan is the denomination in steepest steady decline, whereas Pentecostalism is the fastest growing religious movement in the world (now 500 million by many estimates). Why the difference? Pentecostalism takes prolonged prayer vigils seriously because they believe in the power of persevering prayer and their Prayer Rooms are filled with passionate seekers spending quality time with the God whom, they believe and have experienced, is a God who hears and answers prayer. So what is at stake in this "open-minded discussion" is whether Christianity is to be a dying faith of ever diminishing expectations of the power of God or a vibrant faith with justifiable mass appeal.
 
Waterfall said:
Anyone know the names of the original 12 disciples?
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A tougher question to answer than one might think because of the high attrition rate of Jesus' disciples:

"Because of this [Jesus' "hard" sayings] many of His disciples turned back and no longer went about with Him (John 6:66)."

Mark's list of the 12 differs by 1 from Luke's list: Mark's Thaddaeus (3:18) has been replaced by Luke's "Judas the son of James (6:16)."
Was Thaddaeus one of the disciples who deserted Jesus in the mass exodus of John 6:66? This Judas asks Jesus a question at the Last Supper (John 14:22)
and seems to have replaced Thaddaeus, who is never mentioned apart from the lists of the 12. And what happened to Levi the son of Alphaeus? Levi was called to follow Jesus and promptly left his tax collector table to do so. He was the brother of 1 of the 12, James the son of Alphaeus. But we never hear about Levi again? Was he part of the mass exodus of disillusioned disciples? Judas iscariot is ultimately replaced as 1 of the 12 by Matthias. Just how fluid was membership in Jesus' inner circle throughout His ministry?
 
Mystic said:
A tougher question to answer than one might think because of the high attrition rate of Jesus' disciples:

"Because of this [Jesus' "hard" sayings] many of His disciples turned back and no longer went about with Him (John 6:66)."

Mark's list of the 12 differs by 1 from Luke's list: Mark's Thaddaeus (3:18) has been replaced by Luke's "Judas the son of James (6:16)."
Was Thaddaeus one of the disciples who deserted Jesus in the mass exodus of John 6:66? This Judas asks Jesus a question at the Last Supper (John 14:22)
and seems to have replaced Thaddaeus, who is never mentioned apart from the lists of the 12. And what happened to Levi the son of Alphaeus? Levi was called to follow Jesus and promptly left his tax collector table to do so. He was the brother of 1 of the 12, James the son of Alphaeus. But we never hear about Levi again? Was he part of the mass exodus of disillusioned disciples? Judas iscariot is ultimately replaced as 1 of the 12 by Matthias. Just how fluid was membership in Jesus' inner circle throughout His ministry?
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Egads!

I hope our Lord wasn't consuming them to keep his Deific Power Going?

The road to Heaven is paved with the countless Apostle bodies?

Shades of drinking the Rite-Aid

The Way to Heaven is through His mouth

And so it goes :3
 
paradox3 said:
Sometimes the same disciple is thought to be known by more than one name.

Matthew/ Levi
Nathanael/ Bartholomew
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Modern scholars don't take those name equivalences seriously because there is no reason why the same disciple would have 2 unrelated names.
In copying Mark the author of the first Gospel changes Levi's name to "Matthew" (9:9-13) to qualify this tax collector as 1 of the 12.
The equivalences are proposed to explain away the fact that both Nathanael and Levi are called by Jesus near the start of His ministry, and yet, they never show up again during Jesus' public ministry, though Nathanael suddenly shows up in a boat with others to witness a resurrection appearance of Jesus (John 21:1-2).
 
How important are the disciples in the Christian narrative? Peter, James and John seem to be the closest to Jesus.
 
Mystic said:
A tougher question to answer than one might think because of the high attrition rate of Jesus' disciples:

"Because of this [Jesus' "hard" sayings] many of His disciples turned back and no longer went about with Him (John 6:66)."

Mark's list of the 12 differs by 1 from Luke's list: Mark's Thaddaeus (3:18) has been replaced by Luke's "Judas the son of James (6:16)."
Was Thaddaeus one of the disciples who deserted Jesus in the mass exodus of John 6:66? This Judas asks Jesus a question at the Last Supper (John 14:22)
and seems to have replaced Thaddaeus, who is never mentioned apart from the lists of the 12. And what happened to Levi the son of Alphaeus? Levi was called to follow Jesus and promptly left his tax collector table to do so. He was the brother of 1 of the 12, James the son of Alphaeus. But we never hear about Levi again? Was he part of the mass exodus of disillusioned disciples? Judas iscariot is ultimately replaced as 1 of the 12 by Matthias. Just how fluid was membership in Jesus' inner circle throughout His ministry?
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Good question...
 
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