Liberal Christian denominations

[chansen]

You really think they are going to bring up a split that happened, what, 15 years ago as a reason she should be terminated now? The United Church screwed up when that happened. They did nothing for you then. You're still mad at Rev. Vosper. Nobody can fix that now.

Her current congregation is happy with her. DSL'ing her now is just going to throw a congregation into turmoil, and the other downside is that it is going to make the more fundamentalist twits among you deliriously happy. I sincerely think that they are not the future of your church. They are the past. They have delusions of being the future, but your church is poorly positioned to capture the nutcase market. Other churches have the brand awareness for that.

 

[Luce NDs]

You really think they are going to bring up a split that happened, what, 15 years ago as a reason she should be terminated now? The United Church screwed up when that happened. They did nothing for you then. You're still mad at Rev. Vosper. Nobody can fix that now.

Her current congregation is happy with her. DSL'ing her now is just going to throw a congregation into turmoil, and the other downside is that it is going to make the more fundamentalist twits among you deliriously happy. I sincerely think that they are not the future of your church. They are the past. They have delusions of being the future, but your church is poorly positioned to capture the nutcase market. Other churches have the brand awareness for that.

Perhaps they will progress independently of the church courts? Loose Christians going on ...

 

[paradox3]

You really think they are going to bring up a split that happened, what, 15 years ago as a reason she should be terminated now? The United Church screwed up when that happened. They did nothing for you then. You're still mad at Rev. Vosper. Nobody can fix that now.

Her current congregation is happy with her. DSL'ing her now is just going to throw a congregation into turmoil, and the other downside is that it is going to make the more fundamentalist twits among you deliriously happy. I sincerely think that they are not the future of your church. They are the past. They have delusions of being the future, but your church is poorly positioned to capture the nutcase market. Other churches have the brand awareness for that.

Au contraire. I think we in the congregation were tremendously at fault for doing nothing at the time. We are at least as responsible for the whole fiasco as the old Scarborough Presbytery.

I will be surprised if she is not ultimately DSL'ed.

Yes, her current congregation will be thrown into turmoil. If they are not in turmoil already.

 

[paradox3]

You really think they are going to bring up a split that happened, what, 15 years ago as a reason she should be terminated now?

No. I did not say that.

But I think if anyone is going to be swayed by the support she has from her current congregation, they need to look at the complete picture.

 

[paradox3]

the other downside is that it is going to make the more fundamentalist twits among you deliriously happy. I sincerely think that they are not the future of your church. They are the past. They have delusions of being the future, but your church is poorly positioned to capture the nutcase market. Other churches have the brand awareness for that.

This is over the top Chansen.

What evidence do you have re: fundamentalist twits among us? Or that we are seeking the nutcase market?

 

[Luce NDs]

No. I did not say that.

But I think if anyone is going to be swayed by the support she has from her current congregation, they need to look at the complete picture.

That's not just part of human compart mentalism ... orthodox projection requires boxing ... tis believed that there is nothing beyond that ... and we have labels for absence ...

 

[chansen]

This is over the top Chansen.

What evidence do you have re: fundamentalist twits among us? Or that we are seeking the nutcase market?

Mostly my time on the UCCan Facebook group. You have a FoxNews-watching contingent that is not really present on WC. You guys harbour some people who are remarkably intolerant for what people consider the most tolerant Christian denomination in Canada.

 

[revsdd]

Mostly my time on the UCCan Facebook group. You have a FoxNews-watching contingent that is not really present on WC. You guys harbour some people who are remarkably intolerant for what people consider the most tolerant Christian denomination in Canada.

Seriously? You're serious? We must look at different UCCanada Facebook pages.

I've decided to avoid the UCC Facebook group like its the plague for exactly the opposite reason - liberal/progressive extremists who aren't even remotely interested in or capable of having an honest discussion. Disagree with them on anything and all of a sudden it's a "justice" issue and you're ignorant and out of line with the "ethos." I was once personally attacked by one of the administrators (admittedly not on the page, but on my own timeline) for simply disagreeing with the NDP on something - and that was the point at which I quit the page because I simply no longer trusted the page as long as it had him as an administrator. In the time (admittedly little) that I've spent there I've seen very little evidence of what I'd call a conservative mindset. I've seen lots of people being accused of being outdated and ignorant, etc., etc. because they don't fall in line with the prevailing ultra-liberal mindset there.

 

[chansen]

True, there is a heavy Social Justice Jesus bent there, but there are also the hardcore Christians that I didn't expect from the UCCan.

And I think there is a lot of internal tension in the UCCan between the sides. The Rev. Vosper situation is one where, because of the road chosen, one side is going to definitely lose. I really think they will intentionally or unintentionally delay this until they dismiss the review because it took too long. Again, I don't see it happening before the GC, because that will make the Vosper decision the talk of the GC. Then if it doesn't happen by November, stick a fork in it.

Of course, I recall this process started just before the last GC in 2015, and the timing was noted as atrocious then. That's the argument that it will go ahead before the GC, because good timing has never been a priority for you guys.

 

[revsdd]

True, there is a heavy Social Justice Jesus bent there, but there are also the hardcore Christians that I didn't expect from the UCCan.

The point should be made that a remarkably tolerant denomination would, by definition, include at least some who are less tolerant. Otherwise, tolerance is nothing more than an illusion - a talking point used simply to pat ourselves on the back and make sure everybody knows how tolerant we are, except toward those we don't agree with. That's usually what we mean when we call ourselves "inclusive" as well - we're incredibly inclusive of everybody who agrees with us.

 

[chansen]

Right, but I didn't expect what I found at FB. This place is far nicer and more relaxed. There, I was compared to a racist and I was the one who was banned while trying to reason with the person who played the "racist" card.

 

[GiancarloZ]

Right, but I didn't expect what I found at FB. This place is far nicer and more relaxed. There, I was compared to a racist and I was the one who was banned while trying to reason with the person who played the "racist" card.

Facebook's got something that turns it into an extremists' magnet. I appreciate some groups over there, as the Karl Barth Discussion Group, but even there where people are nice there is something about the platform that precludes you from having meaningful and deep conversations. Facebook is a place for hatred and/or kitties pictures.

 

[revsdd]

Facebook's got something that turns it into an extremists' magnet. I appreciate some groups over there, as the Karl Barth Discussion Group, but even there where people are nice there is something about the platform that precludes you from having meaningful and deep conversations. Facebook is a place for hatred and/or kitties pictures.

Twitter is even worse.

My Facebook experiences have actually been fairly positive. But the groups can get out of hand, I agree.

WC2 is far friendlier and more relaxed than the UCCan fb group. That's not even debatable. But chansen and I might disagree. I find the nastiest people on the UCCan fb page tend to be on the liberal/progressive side. Those on the other end of the spectrum are usually reacting rather than instigating. That's my observation anyway. Perhaps chansen has spent more time there than I have. Personally, I don't think he should ever have been banned from that group.

 

[KayTheCurler]

I don't think he should have been banned either. To me it seemed like a typical 'organised religion' action. They kept saying women are equally important and kept us from serving in certain positions (my childhood era). Now they yammer on about wanting 'conversation and challenging questions and viewpoints' until they get them. That is when Chansen got tossed out. .

 

[revjohn]

I've decided to avoid the UCC Facebook group like its the plague for exactly the opposite reason - liberal/progressive extremists who aren't even remotely interested in or capable of having an honest discussion.

This.

When I refused to agree that the Loon Lake Fire Chief was a racist murderer because he didn't respond to the fire on a first nation reserve. I got flak from the same admin revsdd dealt with.

The complete absence of critical thought in that whole discussion was replaced by emotive criticism that couldn't be bothered with facts of the case.

I left shortly thereafter.

Haven't missed it at all.

 

[Mendalla]

I find the nastiest people on the UCCan fb page tend to be on the liberal/progressive side.

I have seen this in other areas as well (e.g. academia). The fact is, it is not one extreme or the other that is the problem, it is being extreme that is the problem. Liberal/progressive does not necessarily equal tolerant IME, once it moves far enough out. All too often, it's just as intolerant as conservative and has its own biases and prejudices that it uses in judging people.

 

[paradox3]

Liberal/progressive does not necessarily equal tolerant IME, once it moves far enough out. All too often, it's just as intolerant as conservative and has its own biases and prejudices that it uses in judging people.

Yes, fits with my experience of walking with a well known progressive congregation.

 

[Luce NDs]

Is the Greater God an a'theist ... as having reservations about mortal gods?

These must be extracted from time to time to put them in order ... temporarily this happens under the night Eire (Skye) and for lengthier terms every lifetime ... beyond that we don't know what a greater god does to us ... but few recall ... must be stunning as being born ... and mortal species are so busy wailing they don't notice the situation ... path-E? Tis a pain to put up with ...

 

[BetteTheRed]

It is not easy to blend an emerging theology with more orthodox ones, sometimes. The Worship Team and the Rev balance. There's no reference to Father without an accompanying reference to Mother. We use different translations of the Prayer of Jesus. Our preferred translation for scripture readings is the Inclusive Bible. When we blessed prayer shawls a couple of months ago, it wasn't really a problem to hear dear Joan (the prayer shawl co-ordinator), begin her own personal prayer with "Heavenly Father". (We did quickly swipe and replace the printed cards to go with the shawls on which she'd used the same phrase.) I spend a lot of time emphasizing eco-spirituality - care of the earth, and I'm one of the most likely to participate in First Nations events. We talk out loud about being inclusive to as many groups as possible. We sometimes fail with people who are not open to the idea that their own ideas could possibly be wrong.

 

[Mendalla]

We sometimes fail with people who are not open to the idea that their own ideas could possibly be wrong.

And this may be a natural limit on being inclusive. If the person you are trying to include is themselves exclusive in one or more regards, then you can try as hard as you like but they won't feel included until you exclude on the same basis they do.

So if they oppose same-sex marriage and your church performs same sex marriages, likely nothing short of you abandoning that will get them to stay and that would be even more exclusive than keeping it and suggesting they go elsewhere.