Liberal Christian denominations

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The Gretta Vosper case is interesting. A lot of liberal congregations have been eliminating what they call "God language" from worship and approaching God and Christ in an allegorical way. Countless Episcopalian, UCC, etc. congregations have been doing so in the US. I can't say it's also the case for UCCan but I guess so.
Then comes Vosper and say out and aloud she's an atheist, which, for me, is the same than moving through the elimination of "God language". But then they took off the cross from the congregation, too. And suddenly it seemed a step too far.
I'm not suggesting the matter is simple, but I cannot see what she's done that is so different from many other Ministers and congregation. I'm not defending (or accusing) her, but in my opinion, there is a lack of coherence in the way she's been treated.
 
Hi,
GiancarloZ said:
the balance is always delicate and hard to find
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This is the opportunity and the calling. Each seeking to bring balance within forward in the hope of balance without. My inner sense suggests it matters very much where priority is rooted. To love God with an undivided heart, mind and strength offers a way forward, out of the deepening dark and into the beckoning light. Then to love neighbour as your self. Where this is in play there the kingdom is manifest. Where it is considered secondary, or irrelevant, there is no hope of the kingdom being present. Rather, it is the realm of idolatry. A perennial and pernicious presence in the history of ancient Israel.

There are many institutions of religion in our history and present experience. There is only one Church, one body of Christ. This being comprised of those who have counted the cost and taken up the responsibility. Persons of every tongue, tribe and nation, animated by the Holy Spirit of God. Animated to bear mercy, justice and humility into the experience of each and all encountered along the way. A full inclusion of the otherness of the other by the grace of God. As we see in the exemplar, Jesus of Nazareth.

Here is a comment extracted from Gregory Baum's "Compassion and Solidarity: The Church for Others"...

"At one time the state expected the Church to bless the existing order. The dominant classes, while not religious themselves, were often favourably disposed toward the Church because it blessed the established order and only called for modest reforms. But now the Church has adopted a critical stance. I have already mentioned the hostility of the powerful. What happens if the Church loses the support, however indirect, of the established order? Can the Church maintain its institutional life in such a precarious situation? To answer this question we have to listen to the teaching of Jesus."
​
Interesting to notice that both the liberal and the conservative faith communities have become increasingly circumspect concerning matters putting their charitable status at risk. Perhaps being a distant relation of Mordecai, I am unable to bend the knee before the authority of Haman. With the apostles I am certain it is better to do what God wants than to do what Religious or Political powers want.

George

Me reading Moltmann some years ago:

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GeoFee said:
To love God with an undivided heart, mind and strength offers a way forward, out of the deepening dark and into the beckoning light. Then to love neighbour as your self. Where this is in play there the kingdom is manifest. Where it is considered secondary, or irrelevant, there is no hope of the kingdom being present. Rather, it is the realm of idolatry. A perennial and pernicious presence in the history of ancient Israel.
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I couldn't agree more, George!
 
BetteTheRed said:
And I'm not sure it has been. And if Gretta is DSL'd, which looks increasingly, if slowly, likely, that congregation is going to be in a mess.
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It might already be in a mess. It is in financial trouble and under a great deal of stress waiting for the review to take place.
 
paradox3 said:
How do you think she has been treated?
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I'm not in Canada so I just can talk about what I've read/heard/watched but it seems like she's done something shocking and alarming and absurd. But when it comes to comparing her to other very liberal Ministers/congregations, I don't see much of a difference.
My point is what's the reason she is an issue and the other very liberal ones are not.
 
GiancarloZ said:
I'm not in Canada so I just can talk about what I've read/heard/watched but it seems like she's done something shocking and alarming and absurd. But when it comes to comparing her to other very liberal Ministers/congregations, I don't see much of a difference.
My point is what's the reason she is an issue and the other very liberal ones are not.
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It could be because, you know, she is a self-professed atheist.
 
GiancarloZ said:
My point is what's the reason she is an issue and the other very liberal ones are not.
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Theologically speaking, she is further out on the branch than most. And she uses the secular media to promote herself in various ways. Had she maintained a lower profile she might not be in the position she is in right now.
 
Jae said:
It could be because, you know, she is a self-professed atheist.
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As I've written above, other Ministers (I cannot speak for UCCan but I've seen them in the EPC, UCC, ELCA, etc.) maybe didn't say it that way but are, in practice, atheists or at the very least, non-theists. But paradox3 answered my question.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Yes, but if you have a non-theistic faith, is it proper to 'hide' it ? I don't get that, either.
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Not in my opinion. But is it proper to stay at a Christian denomination? Is it proper that a Christian denomination let them stay?
What are the valid limits for relativization and theological liberalism?
I'm not being ironic here; those are real and important questions.
 
But where is a non-theistic person of faith supposed to go? This is a constant question for me. Should I just go? The denomination would be deprived of a "good little worker"...
 
BetteTheRed said:
But where is a non-theistic person of faith supposed to go? This is a constant question for me. Should I just go? The denomination would be deprived of a "good little worker"...
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I don't think you have to go so long as you want to stay. I would feel differently if you were clergy. Then I'd think you should stay if you want to - but not as clergy.
 
I think we've been losing room for doubt and wondering. Everyone is expected to have answers and certainties for everything all the time. Not knowing can be a recognition of faithfulness.

I am Christian, I consider I have a somewhat solid faith and there are questions I don't dare to answer - and it makes life easier and lighter.
For example, who is God? We just know who is God through what He wanted to show us through Revelation. All the rest is mere speculation.
Is the Bible inerrant? I don't know and I really think it doesn't matter, as historical accuracy is not everything that matters. I'm not saying it's true and I'm not saying it's not, all I'm saying it's Kerygma, the core message of the Gospel, and the allegorical, Christocentric reading are way more important than historical inerrancy.

So to say that the obligation to have definite answers lead us to places we don't have to go.
 
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