Let's talk gender,and other language issues

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BetteTheRed said:
Chemgal, I understand that it is English convention to use "man" and "he" as generic replacements to indicate all genders. I don't like it.

I mainly don't like it because it conveys to little girls, just learning the language, that there are gendered jobs. I think it does subtle and permanent damage to young women.
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I don't like that either. You said that women would find the gender neutral terms objectionable?
 
Clumsy phrasing. I was trying to say that the words that were being replaced, like fireman, etc., are objectionable to women...
 
As I said, clumsy phrasing. If you have to read it six times, in any condition, I can clearly do better, lol!
 
@ChemGal ...Some women find fireman, mailman objectionable. I recognize not all do.
I feel that by using those terms we setup girls to think that they cannot do the job. It sets up a gender bias as well. Women should not apply nor be hired for a job that is described as a mailman.

I hope that I am being clear.
 
Pinga said:
@ChemGal ...Some women find fireman, mailman objectionable. I recognize not all do.
I feel that by using those terms we setup girls to think that they cannot do the job. It sets up a gender bias as well. Women should not apply nor be hired for a job that is described as a mailman.

I hope that I am being clear.
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Yeah, I was taking it as the gender neutral terms in Bette's post as being the ones that could be objectionable to women; she was referring to the gendered ones.
 
ChemGal said:
Well where I am they were CSRs which I can't even recall the full term.
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Customer Service Representative? That's not really a "secretary" though, in the classic sense. It's more a term for a clerical position that serves the public. Our CSRs are the ones who make appointments, do billings, coordinate patient visits, and that sort of thing. They do some office functions that could be seen as secretarial, such as filing patient charts, but even those are mostly ultimately related to serving the clients. They certainly don't do filing, typing, etc. for the branch manager (has to look after him/herself).
 
BetteTheRed said:
Also, we have administrative assistant. It's currently a woman, but her predecessor was a man.
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I've heard that one used in various settings, too. Never in a church but it fits the role well.

BetteTheRed said:
"Postie" is proper Australian slang for letter carrier. I like it.
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Jae said:
We're in Canada. ;)
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I remember the term being used here in Canada as far back as the eighties. Maybe it was a local thing in K-W because I haven't heard it much recently, other than me using it on occasion.
 
I know a minister who made a hymn title error in the bulletin and made the secretary retype and run off 150 new copies.

She also had to type his sermon and his family Christmas letter. Personal secretary????
 
Mendalla said:
Customer Service Representative? That's not really a "secretary" though, in the classic sense. It's more a term for a clerical position that serves the public. Our CSRs are the ones who make appointments, do billings, coordinate patient visits, and that sort of thing. They do some office functions that could be seen as secretarial, such as filing patient charts, but even those are mostly ultimately related to serving the clients. They certainly don't do filing, typing, etc. for the branch manager (has to look after him/herself).
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Here they do things like take care of orders from Staples, coffee supplier etc. They do have two sides to their jobs, and the side I would see is moreso on the secretarial side. They also sit at the front of the buildings to great visitors. I think on the other side it's moreso taking care of the paperwork for the sales guys (literally all male AFAIK currently).
 
ChemGal said:
Here they do things like take care of orders from Staples, coffee supplier etc. They do have two sides to their jobs, and the side I would see is moreso on the secretarial side. They also sit at the front of the buildings to great visitors. I think on the other side it's moreso taking care of the paperwork for the sales guys (literally all male AFAIK currently).
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Ours do that stuff but it's a minor part of the job. The primary role (hence the title CUSTOMER SERVICE Representative) is dealing with our clients in various ways (taking orders, dispatching supplies, invoicing, taking payments, making appointments, and so on).

We don't have actual sales people. Our managers are responsible for marketing to LTCFs, doctors, etc., with help from assistant managers and, in some locations, other roles. It's a mix of men and women, probably leaning slightly to the latter. We have a small marketing team (a graphic artist and a new position that does copy writing and such) to support them but they are the "sales people" as much as we have any.

And I find it interesting and even curious that your sales team are all male. Many of the reps I deal with, even in tech which is a male-dominated field, are women.
 
Mendalla said:
I've heard that one used in various settings, too. Never in a church but it fits the role well.





I remember the term being used here in Canada as far back as the eighties. Maybe it was a local thing in K-W because I haven't heard it much recently, other than me using it on occasion.
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Have never heard it used in Toronto, so.
 
Mendalla said:
Ours do that stuff but it's a minor part of the job. The primary role (hence the title CUSTOMER SERVICE Representative) is dealing with our clients in various ways (taking orders, dispatching supplies, invoicing, taking payments, making appointments, and so on).

We don't have actual sales people. Our managers are responsible for marketing to LTCFs, doctors, etc., with help from assistant managers and, in some locations, other roles. It's a mix of men and women, probably leaning slightly to the latter. We have a small marketing team (a graphic artist and a new position that does copy writing and such) to support them but they are the "sales people" as much as we have any.

And I find it interesting and even curious that your sales team are all male. Many of the reps I deal with, even in tech which is a male-dominated field, are women.
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They are out in the field, hauling drums at times, etc.
Got confirmation the CSRs main duty is to prepare the billing based on the info from the sales guys. They don't really interact with clients.
 
crazyheart said:
I know a minister who made a hymn title error in the bulletin and made the secretary retype and run off 150 new copies.

She also had to type his sermon and his family Christmas letter. Personal secretary????
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Ummm...he typed the bulletin and made a mistake and told the secretary to fix it? His job includes doing sermons but the secretary must type them so he can read them? No one in his family is sufficiently literate to deal with their own mail??

Weird.
 
KayTheCurler said:
Ummm...he typed the bulletin and made a mistake and told the secretary to fix it? His job includes doing sermons but the secretary must type them so he can read them? No one in his family is sufficiently literate to deal with their own mail??

Weird.
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I don't understand what is wierd about this one, or what is wrong.

#1. Most people that run off items have the requirement to do a proof-reading. Missing something is a pain. It happens.
#2. If you are the admin assistant, then you would retype the bulletin, and also reprint.
#3. it is possible he handwrote his sermon, and didn't type. If her job description was to type the sermon, who cares. It is her job description.
#4. The family letter from a minsiter , same thing. if he writes, doesn't type, and it was her job description, it is no one's business other than M&P if for some reason they want the minister to become a typist, or they want a volunteer to type it
 
Note: maybe I am jaded on this one. I work as part of a team. People do stuff based on their skill, expertise, as well as the amount they are paid. if for example, we are all pressed for time, it would likely be the person who made the least who would be ordering the pizza. If though, the person who is busiest is the person , we kick in to help. team. I'm not going to pay a VP normally to unpack inventory; however, if things are crazy and there are problems on a shop floor, yes, even a VP may be engaged.
 
ChemGal said:
They are out in the field, hauling drums at times, etc.
Got confirmation the CSRs main duty is to prepare the billing based on the info from the sales guys. They don't really interact with clients.
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I also know of some who would not hire a woman for the position sadly. The social interactions would be quite uncomfortable far too often too.
 
What’s wrong with the word “ secretary”? Is it that we are used to secretaries being mostly female? The word doesn’t express it.
There is a Secretary of State, who usually is male.
What about “ nurse”? Another one we are used to females. Now, that is also related to breastfeeding, which males really cannot do. “ Male nurse”? We don’t really know how the person identifies themselves. Anything more neutral? Caregiver doesn’t really cut it.
 
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