Keep Women in the kitchen

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Pinga

Pinga

Room for All
So.....in certain denominations , including the united church of canada, there have been times when women were not allowed to be Ministers. We know the history in the United Church of Canada.

It is primarily what I refer to as fundamentalist denominations or churches that seem to continue this practice; however, Roman Catholic Church doesn't allow female priests.

Rather than take the Cruxifusion thread, further off track, thought I would move the conversation about women and fundamentalists.

Here is a clip that you may want to laugh or puke over to start the conversation

 
Pinga said:
So.....in certain denominations , including the united church of canada, there have been times when women were not allowed to be Ministers. We know the history in the United Church of Canada.

It is primarily what I refer to as fundamentalist denominations or churches that seem to continue this practice; however, Roman Catholic Church doesn't allow female priests.

Rather than take the Cruxifusion thread, further off track, thought I would move the conversation about women and fundamentalists.

Here is a clip that you may want to laugh or puke over to start the conversation

Click to expand...
Would be funny if people with these attitudes didn't actually affect people's career paths, wages etc.
 
Sadly there are women pastors in the UCC who face discrimination based on their sex on a regular basis. It breaks my heart to hear their stories of frustration and hurt.

These women are incredibly gifted and called to minister in the church. At a Crux conference a few years ago, I stood in front of the assembly naming this concern of mine and spent a few minutes is prayer for our sisters. Afterwards a number of women came up to me thanking me for naming it. Some even shared with me their experiences. It was a powerful couple of days.
 
Pinga said:
So.....in certain denominations , including the united church of canada, there have been times when women were not allowed to be Ministers. We know the history in the United Church of Canada.

It is primarily what I refer to as fundamentalist denominations or churches that seem to continue this practice; however, Roman Catholic Church doesn't allow female priests.

Rather than take the Cruxifusion thread, further off track, thought I would move the conversation about women and fundamentalists.

Here is a clip that you may want to laugh or puke over to start the conversation

Click to expand...

The topic of women in leadership is something that we've talked about before here on WC2 (and I'm sure on the classic WC as well). In my denomination we do not allow women to be Elders, because we believe the Bible speaks against permitting them to be so. That doesn't mean that we forbid women from being leaders in our churches. At my current church, women participate in leading such things as some worship services, some prayer meetings, and some small group meetings. We don't have any Deacons right now, but women are as eligible to become Deacons as men are.
 
The first guy is just funny in his own stupidity. Guy sitting in rocking chair stating that things can't be different because God said so. The second video pretends to be smart, by trying to come up with some kind of educational logic, Missing the funny character, rocking chair and all, it only boils down to dumb and discriminating. (Oh, I forgot, it can't be discriminating, because God said so.)
 
Mrs.Anteater said:
The second video pretends to be smart, by trying to come up with some kind of educational logic, Missing the funny character, rocking chair and all, it only boils down to dumb and discriminating. (Oh, I forgot, it can't be discriminating, because God said so.)
Click to expand...

So in other words you just don't like it. Your dislike has nothing to do with hermeneutics. Got it.
 
Pinga said:
So.....in certain denominations , including the united church of canada, there have been times when women were not allowed to be Ministers. We know the history in the United Church of Canada.

It is primarily what I refer to as fundamentalist denominations or churches that seem to continue this practice; however, Roman Catholic Church doesn't allow female priests.

Rather than take the Cruxifusion thread, further off track, thought I would move the conversation about women and fundamentalists.

Here is a clip that you may want to laugh or puke over to start the conversation

Click to expand...
I couldn't laugh at this, it is soo backward. The world would likely be a better place with more women in control, God knows men haven't done a very good job. And Trump, we'll he's the epitome of men gone wrong.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2009/feb/22/iceland-women
 
Hermeneutics that justifies discrimination is not hermeneutics worth doing in the twenty-first century. Some of the best ministers I've known have been women and my UU church board was almost all women at one time (due to demographics, not discrimination against men). Even in my family UCCan congregation, at least by the 1980s, we had women as elders. Unfortunately, old attitudes died hard and when I was serving on a ministerial search, it was quickly established that the church "wasn't ready" for a woman minister. Even though around the time I left for good, which was not that many years later, a woman in the congregation was going through discernment.:rolleyes:

As I've often said, churches like Jae's are welcome to do what they like, but it is their loss. They are likely sidelining some very good preachers and lay leaders. Certainly, I would never join or contribute to such a church.
 
Mendalla said:
Hermeneutics that justifies discrimination is not hermeneutics worth doing in the twenty-first century.
Click to expand...

They can be hermeneutics done well. That doesn't mean they'll be popular in today's day and age when many in the Church are keenly interested in following the ways of society.

Mendalla said:
Some of the best ministers I've known have been women and my UU church board was almost all women at one time (due to demographics, not discrimination against men). Even in my family UCCan congregation, at least by the 1980s, we had women as elders. Unfortunately, old attitudes died hard and when I was serving on a ministerial search, it was quickly established that the church "wasn't ready" for a woman minister. Even though around the time I left for good, which was not that many years later, a woman in the congregation was going through discernment.:rolleyes:

As I've often said, churches like Jae's are welcome to do what they like, but it is their loss. They are likely sidelining some very good preachers and lay leaders. Certainly, I would never join or contribute to such a church.
Click to expand...

As I've already shared in this very thread Mendalla, we have both women and men as lay leaders.
 
Jae said:
They can be hermeneutics done well. That doesn't mean they'll be popular in today's day and age when many in the Church are keenly interested in following the ways of society.
Click to expand...

Which just justifies my decision to leave Christianity all the more, since I am no longer obligated to deal with hermeneutics in deciding how to live my life and run my church.

Jae said:
As I've already shared in this very thread Mendalla, we have both women and men as lay leaders.
Click to expand...

But could a woman ever be the most senior lay leader (equivalent to our President)? How high can a woman aspire to rise in your church? In my church, there is no ceiling. Treasurer? We've had plenty of women in that role, including one who stayed on far too long just because no one else would take the job and she was doing it very well. President? Been a woman many times, including presently. Minister? Had four of those in my time in the church (1 settled, 2 interim, 1 contract).
 
Even if "God" was reported to have told us that women must be subordinate to men, that was then and this is now.

God appears to change according to our awarensss of IT. This is why attachment to the old causes us pain, we must move with the times else those times become a millstone around our necks.

It amazes me that we're still having this discussion in 2016.
 
Jae said:
They can be hermeneutics done well. That doesn't mean they'll be popular in today's day and age when many in the Church are keenly interested in following the ways of society.



As I've already shared in this very thread Mendalla, we have both women and men as lay leaders.
Click to expand...
Just not as capital L leaders of the church. I get it @Jae .

@RevNP I am sure those women definitely appreciated your words. How hard to be someone who is not welcome or supported. Gotta love those comments "her voice is too shrill". "it isn't a minister's voice".

One of the challenges that we have in dialogue is the use of the word "fundamentalist", just as we do "progressive". They imply stereotypes. Some of them are true, but the vast majority live in the complex world of "it depends", or "well, not on THAT point"

Many of the ministers here show the variety of belief and theology and I appreciate their willingness to expand on words, or challenge those stereotypes. @revsdd,@revjohn @GordW -- and @RevMatt used to just dump on us, and @RichardBott and George Hermanson to name a few.
 
Mendalla said:
Which just justifies my decision to leave Christianity all the more, since I am no longer obligated to deal with hermeneutics in deciding how to live my life and run my church.



But could a woman ever be the most senior lay leader (equivalent to our President)? How high can a woman aspire to rise in your church? In my church, there is no ceiling. Treasurer? We've had plenty of women in that role, including one who stayed on far too long just because no one else would take the job and she was doing it very well. President? Been a woman many times, including presently. Minister? Had four of those in my time in the church (1 settled, 2 interim, 1 contract).
Click to expand...

The head of your church is called the President? Is that typical in UU churches? The head of my church is the Pastor. The person who's called our President is the leader of our denomination. The highest office in my church women are allowed to fill is that of Deacon. The highest level of lay leader in my church is that of Elder. That office is not available to women.
 
Pinga said:
Just not as capital L leaders of the church. I get it @Jae .
Click to expand...

Not quite sure what you mean by that Pinga. I've already shared that in my church, women are as eligible to become Deacons as are men, which is a senior level church office.
 
I have often wondered why some churches will cling to the Adam and Eve story as justification for not having women ministers, and yet not follow all of the teachings in Leviticus.
@Jae is there an answer for this? How does your church decide which teachings can be let go and why?
 
So, @Mendalla , what is the correct terminology to describe a church that restricts offices of the church based on gender.

If fundamentalist is not accurate, is there a proper term?
 
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