In Defense of Doubt

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Redbaron

Redbaron

Pirate fan since the dark ages
Pronouns
He/Him/His
This from a Pantheos newsletter. It seems appropriate for today, as it mirrors the Lectionary Gospel reading for today, John 20:19-31.
What do you think?

www.patheos.com

Why Doubt Is My Favorite Virtue

Today's gospel is focused on Doubting Thomas, the guy who entered the disciple's Hall of Shame because he refused to believe reports of Jesus' resurrection until he could see and handle Jesus in the flesh himself. And Thomas is one of my spiritual heroes.
www.patheos.com www.patheos.com
 
I guess I am kind of a "Doubting Thomas" where things like God and Christ are concerned. As an agnostic, I hold that belief in such is a matter of faith and not provable. It's subjective. I want to touch the wounds, so to speak, or at least have some direct, personal experience that gives me a reason to believe. Not sure why I went down that road when I came from a fairly solid, if middle-of-the-road, Christian family. I have a natural curiousity and great respect for the scientific method, testing a hypothesis rather than accepting it on faith, so I guess questioning and wanting to test the answers I am given comes out of that.
 
I don't think I'd know what to do about certainty. I am certain of very little, except for the present moment. My memories of the past are distorted, I'm sure; my visions of the future so inaccurate as to be laughable.

I do have "faith" in the ultimate benevolence of the universe, on a macro (not personal) level. That's all I've got.
 
GeoFee said:
Wrestling with doubt has brought me much benefit.
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I am not sure I would word it that way. Doubt is not the thing I am wrestling with. Doubt is me wrestling with certainties or ideas. It is a valued ally, not a foe.
 
my view
Doubt is for this physical world only ------Doubt is used in the positive in this physical world -----doubt can keep you from a bad situation -----you doubt if you jump over a big cliff you will survive ----hence doubt will keep you safe -----

Doubt is used in the negative in the Spiritual world ------there is not one scripture that says if you doubt there is a God you will be saved from eternal doom -----

All Scripture on doubt says Don't doubt ---only believe ------

Many use Doubting Thomas as an example ---but that is because they do not understand that it was not doubt that lead Thomas to believe in Jesus ---it was Jesus who lead Thomas to believe by opening up his heart to receive truth of His wounds ------

If Doubt can lead people to assurance which is Faith in scriptures then there would be no need for God's word which says that God's faith --assurance comes by hearing the word ------and God has to open up the heart of the person to receive the word of Faith and truth -------

Many people who heard the Word did not understand it as their hearts were closed to receive the message -----doubt had nothing to do with it ------

Jesus said they hear but they do not hear -----they see but they do not see ----it is a heart issue not a doubt issue -------

John 6:44 ----amp

AMP
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him [giving him the desire to come to Me]; and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.

Doubt did not bring Thomas to believe -----Thomas had his heart and eyes open to believe by God ----his Spiritual blindness was lifted the moment when he saw the wounds and touched them ------
 
I just wish I could remember where I read or heard this-- 'There are 2 groups of people who have no doubts, cult members and zombies' I find it rings true. There are those who would refuse to admit their doubts, but repressing them does no good; they will show at some point. Twould be better to face them and deal with them.
 
I think occasional doubt is good, but I wouldn't want to live there. After all decisions have to be made after doubt presents itself.
 
Waterfall said:
I think occasional doubt is good, but I wouldn't want to live there. After all decisions have to be made after doubt presents itself.
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When a decision has to be made, of course you have come down on a position eventually, but in most cases that decision needs to be based on facts and analysis, not blind faith. Doubt comes in by ruling out blind faith and forcing us to actually think about our decision instead of just going by some kind of fiat.

And in metaphysics, like whether there is an afterlife or an omnipotent deity, I see no harm in taking a position but admitting that that position is based on personal belief/faith and that there is still room for doubt as to the factuality of that position. Believe in God, but admit that it is faith or a belief and that you cannot know or prove it from an objective or rational standpoint (which is classical agnosticism). Most importantly, that opens the door to dialogue with those who do not believe as you do by allowing room for them to perhaps be right. It breaks down the "I am right and you are wrong" positions that impede, rather than further, dialogue.

It is what allows me as an agnostic to dialogue respectfully with both a person of faith and a person who does not share that faith.
 
If I remember correctly....
Descartes' famous cogito ergo sum -- I think therefore I am could also be "I doubt therefore I am". The only thing Descartes could not doubt was that he doubted. Doubting pushed him (and, I would argue, pushes us) to dig deeper and explore further.
 
This week I am working with what I believe to be something of a parallel story to John's account of Doubting Thomas. In Luke, just after the story of the Emmaus Road we have an appearance story that has a lot of the same sort of features -- eating and touching to prove a real body chief among them. So I am pondering proof and doubt this week...

Looking Ahead to April 18, 2021 -- 3rd Sunday of Easter, Year B

The Scripture Reading this week is Luke 24:36-48 The Sermon title is Proof? Early Thoughts: How do you prove Resurrection? Is that really...
gordsponderings.blogspot.com gordsponderings.blogspot.com
 
Mendalla said:
When a decision has to be made, of course you have come down on a position eventually, but in most cases that decision needs to be based on facts and analysis, not blind faith. Doubt comes in by ruling out blind faith and forcing us to actually think about our decision instead of just going by some kind of fiat.

And in metaphysics, like whether there is an afterlife or an omnipotent deity, I see no harm in taking a position but admitting that that position is based on personal belief/faith and that there is still room for doubt as to the factuality of that position. Believe in God, but admit that it is faith or a belief and that you cannot know or prove it from an objective or rational standpoint (which is classical agnosticism). Most importantly, that opens the door to dialogue with those who do not believe as you do by allowing room for them to perhaps be right. It breaks down the "I am right and you are wrong" positions that impede, rather than further, dialogue.

It is what allows me as an agnostic to dialogue respectfully with both a person of faith and a person who does not share that faith.
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There are more than one truth IMO and one of them can be faith based.
 
Waterfall said:
I think occasional doubt is good, but I wouldn't want to live there. After all decisions have to be made after doubt presents itself.
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But sucking on a comfort blanket does far more damage, why would you want to live a lie. It makes no sense to me.
Doubt leads us to the truth. Doubt is a good thing.
Take no one's word for it. All things are to be questioned to gain wisdom.
 
GordW said:
If I remember correctly....
Descartes' famous cogito ergo sum -- I think therefore I am could also be "I doubt therefore I am". The only thing Descartes could not doubt was that he doubted. Doubting pushed him (and, I would argue, pushes us) to dig deeper and explore further.
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And yet many fail to discover the truth, and don't explore enough.
 
Pavlos Maros said:
But sucking on a comfort blanket does far more damage, why would you want to live a lie. It makes no sense to me.
Doubt leads us to the truth. Doubt is a good thing.
Take no one's word for it. All things are to be questioned to gain wisdom.
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I agree doubt is a good thing but not if it leads you to sit on the fence your entire life IMO.
Doubt is not always a good thing in every aspect of life.
Is doubt the same as questioning?
 
Pavlos Maros said:
No there isn't actually.
There is actual truth and the one you wish was true.
There lies the difference.
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This is where we differ....I see spiritual growth as part of being human and a truth...you don't....which is your choice obviously.
 
Waterfall said:
I agree doubt is a good thing but not if it leads you to sit on the fence your entire life IMO.
Doubt is not always a good thing in every aspect of life.
Is doubt the same as questioning?
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How does doubt lead anybody to sit on the fence? Doubt leads to better understanding, and eventually the truth. If by wanting the truth your entire life means you are sitting on the fence then you are right. But I don't think it actually means that.
To doubt, is to question yourself on the legitimacy of your knowledge. If you don't wish to question yourself then that is sad. You have given up.
Waterfall said:
This is where we differ....I see spiritual growth as part of being human and a truth...you don't....which is your choice obviously.
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Spiritual growth is an imagined concept. So of course we differ.
As said there is actual truth (reality) and the one you wish was true. (spiritual growth)
 
Pavlos Maros said:
How does doubt lead anybody to sit on the fence?

Spiritual growth is an imagined concept. So of course we differ.
As said there is actual truth (reality) and the one you wish was true. (spiritual growth)
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One can doubt the effectiveness of the Covid vaccines forever......which may or may not lead to death or a lifetime of being sick or even infecting others. Sitting on the fence inevitably leads one to never commit to your own reasonings...eventually just time decides.

As to the other statement above, for me spirituality is a reality because I witness an effect without actually knowing what it is......just like you ( and all of us) witness gravity without knowing what it is
 
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