I have free will to an extent, what do you have.

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Jae said:
The Bible's the living word of God, providing me with truth.
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The Epic of Gilgamesh of the Sumerians, The Book of the Dead of the Egyptians, The Popol Vuh of the Mayans, etc. They were all the 'word of God'. Tell me friend why the bible is the word of God. And tell me why these borrowed stories are relevent to today's world.
 
Aufscherin said:
The Epic of Gilgamesh of the Sumerians, The Book of the Dead of the Egyptians, The Popol Vuh of the Mayans, etc. They were all the 'word of God'. Tell me friend why the bible is the word of God. And tell me why these borrowed stories are relevent to today's world.
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The Bible stands apart for several reasons...
  • Divine Inspiration: The Bible is uniquely inspired by God, and is a living word that speaks to us today.
  • Prophetic Accuracy : The Bible uniquely contains numerous prophecies that have been fulfilled with accuracy. All of its prophecies have either already come true, or else will in the near future.
  • Transformative Power: The Bible uniquely changes lives. Countless people have changed through its teachings, becoming God's friends.
 
Jae said:
The Bible stands apart for several reasons...
  • Divine Inspiration: The Bible is uniquely inspired by God, and is a living word that speaks to us today.
  • Prophetic Accuracy : The Bible uniquely contains numerous prophecies that have been fulfilled with accuracy. All of its prophecies have either already come true, or else will in the near future.
  • Transformative Power: The Bible uniquely changes lives. Countless people have changed through its teachings, becoming God's friends.
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All of those holy books including the Quran claim to be inspired by God. In fact dozens of holy books throughout the ages. All of them had prophecies, *ALL* of them. All the books transformed people. Heck, they even convinced the Egyptians to spend 20 years building the Great pyramid of Gizeh. (Cheops/Khufu)
Just because YOU believe does not make your bible the word of God. I don't believe that there is a God. I believe that we humans merely invented him/her/it.
 
I believe that humans have a problem with what they don't know abut ultimate things ... that is an immense problem those that believe "they know everything they need to know" and all else is bull. Bu they missed the fecundity factor of the unknown lady ... a dark factor in the entire spread! Autonominity and isolationism from the dirt of life is not all the healthy ... and some nutrients go astray in the cloud ... Pall it 've ... curse! Did you see that flash by?
 
The living word of God surrounds us every day. We are the living part of the Bible, how its teachings are lived out through us. It is idolatry to worship anything other than God, including any version of the Bible.
 
Free will allows some people to deny all of the evidence created by the laws of nature, defying the living word of the Holy Mystery. I would like to have the discussion return to what we believe about free will, maybe by discussing what to not consider as intrinsic parts of us. How we make decisions is influenced by our countless experiences including social, media, illnesses, other traumas, and so on. Should free will be connected only to our minds, or connected to the totality of what/who we are?

Where do we see God in the discussion? What do we understand about God?

I suspect God/Holy Mystery is a presence in the Universe that wants us to be authentic to ourselves and, out of that authenticity, to seek relationship with this presence.
 
jimkenney12 said:
It is idolatry to worship anything other than God
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Then let us burn all these heretics at the stake.;) This God that you follow was invented by an obscure tribe wandering the Judean desert 3,500 years ago. Your invisible, apathetic God only exists in your imagination, much the way Santa Claus did when you were a small child.
 
If you read my second post, you will see that the god or holy mystery in which I believe has no interest in punishing people for what they do or do not do. It is an invitational god, not an arbitrary god. Jesus said God causes the rain to fall on the just and unjust.
Arguments about the nature of God are mostly just arguments with little useful discussion. Free will is a challenging topic with opportunities for useful discussion. I said I would like as an assertion, not a command but as an attempt to influence the conversation.
 
jimkenney12 said:
Jesus said
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Why would I care what Jesus (Yoshua Bar Yousef) said? He got most of his sayings from the teachings of the Essenes sect. Have you read the 4 banned gospels? (Gospels of Thomas, Phillip, Judas Iscariot, Mary Magdelene) Are you aware that in the history of the Hebrews that there were about 130 prophets who all claimed to be the messiah? The most famous of these was Bar Cochba. The only thing that sets this Jesus apart was that he had good PR people with his apostles.
 
Free will is a discussion like the song that never ends and goes on and on again.

In keeping with the alleged character of Jesus in the Bible I can relate to him as as practitioner of free will in service to his idea of God. That being, as I understand it, is the universal truth that sets us all free to act according to our own will and suffer the consequences for better or worse.
 
jimkenney12 said:
Free will allows some people to deny all of the evidence created by the laws of nature, defying the living word of the Holy Mystery. I would like to have the discussion return to what we believe about free will, maybe by discussing what to not consider as intrinsic parts of us. How we make decisions is influenced by our countless experiences including social, media, illnesses, other traumas, and so on. Should free will be connected only to our minds, or connected to the totality of what/who we are?

Where do we see God in the discussion? What do we understand about God?

I suspect God/Holy Mystery is a presence in the Universe that wants us to be authentic to ourselves and, out of that authenticity, to seek relationship with this presence.
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Your assumption that individuals freely deny the evidence provided by nature and the divine rests on the idea that they have conscious control over their choices.
However, they only have the illusion of free will, which makes that assumption false.
I think you said something like this in a previous post. Brain scans have shown that the brain makes decisions milliseconds before the individual becomes conscious of them. This would mean that individuals don’t choose to deny evidence; they are simply acting on unconscious impulses shaped by biology, environment, and experience.
And the idea that external influences, like social conditioning, media exposure, trauma, and illness, impact their decisions is evidence that free will does not exist. Their actions are determined by prior causes beyond their control.
This then means that they are entirely determined by external factors, their minds are not independent entities that makes "free" choices. Their mind, like the rest of their body, operates based on the inputs it receives from genetics. And because free will is an illusion. It mean's their relationship with the divine or the "Holy Mystery"? The idea that god wants them to be authentic to themselves" implies that they have a genuine choice in how they live or how they relate to god.
Free will as an illusion means even their relationship with a god is not freely chosen; it is determined by the factors that shape them.
 
Pavlos Maros said:
Your assumption that individuals freely deny the evidence provided by nature and the divine rests on the idea that they have conscious control over their choices.
However, they only have the illusion of free will, which makes that assumption false.
I think you said something like this in a previous post. Brain scans have shown that the brain makes decisions milliseconds before the individual becomes conscious of them. This would mean that individuals don’t choose to deny evidence; they are simply acting on unconscious impulses shaped by biology, environment, and experience.
And the idea that external influences, like social conditioning, media exposure, trauma, and illness, impact their decisions is evidence that free will does not exist. Their actions are determined by prior causes beyond their control.
This then means that they are entirely determined by external factors, their minds are not independent entities that makes "free" choices. Their mind, like the rest of their body, operates based on the inputs it receives from genetics. And because free will is an illusion. It mean's their relationship with the divine or the "Holy Mystery"? The idea that god wants them to be authentic to themselves" implies that they have a genuine choice in how they live or how they relate to god.
Free will as an illusion means even their relationship with a god is not freely chosen; it is determined by the factors that shape them.
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You under rate the power of the mind to influence the internal algorithms that influence the decision-making. The internal algorithms are shaped by new information as well as history. The mind contributes to the processing of information. The decision making may be made by the subconscious, but the weighting of information is influenced by the mind.
 
Aufscherin said:
Your invisible, apathetic God only exists in your imagination
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Imagination is an exercise of free will. The God that I choose to image my physical being on will be as visible as my free will to act out that imagination as I see fit.
 
jimkenney12 said:
You under rate the power of the mind to influence the internal algorithms that influence the decision-making. The internal algorithms are shaped by new information as well as history. The mind contributes to the processing of information. The decision making may be made by the subconscious, but the weighting of information is influenced by the mind.
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No sorry I don't in the OP I specifically state that I have free will to an extent ,like all humans. However, for a religious person to have the god given free will they claim is an illusion. Because Illusion and imagination are very much alike, both involve the mind creating something that's not real. Imagination lets people picture things that don't exist, like daydreaming or coming up with stories. Illusion tricks the senses, making something seem different from what it really is.
In both, the mind goes beyond what’s actually happening. They both play with what we see or think, making us experience something that isn’t really there. Whether imagining a god or being tricked by the illusion of free will, it’s all about the brain creating something outside of reality.
WhyCzar said:
Imagination is an exercise of free will. The God that I choose to image my physical being on will be as visible as my free will to act out that imagination as I see fit.
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Did you read the OP. A religious person's imagination is the problem. See above reply to Jim.
WhyCzar said:
How I choose to react to causes beyond my control is an act of free will.
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For none religious person, to an extent. Read the OP. This is about the god given free will, believers claim they have.
 
So say God is life, some say, god is this, others say that and with free will will consume what they will ... even when tld not to consume the entire thing as that is self destructive ... a reciprocal function controlled by some alien respect that's out there ... looking back ... those of avarice will have nothing to do with respect ... just observe how they behave in their development patterns ... chaos, threats, posturing about locking up those that declare the loser is no longer winning ... because of ignorant posturing about what he knows ...

Let us stand down, rest and observe ... from "out of it" the darkness may clear ... maybe ... maybe not, depends not on determinants ... chance? That's quanta ...
 
The concept of god given free will, I believe, is about god not controlling our decision making-- we are not puppets. It is not about us having special powers of free choice. I suspect we agree on this.
 
jimkenney12 said:
The concept of god given free will, I believe, is about god not controlling our decision making-- we are not puppets. It is not about us having special powers of free choice. I suspect we agree on this.
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Then bound responsibly to things we are not cognizant of ... authorities would rather we not know this ... thus the nada WOKE! In such states obscured vision of things beyond us ... we being mortal ... we're limited corporal B' eins ... seed for mores ... mostly un observed due to the pall out of Rome ... incensed?
 
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