I don't vaccinate my child because it's my right to determine which diseases come back

[Waterfall]

Kimmio i think there are different tyoes if people who dont vaccinate and it doesnt surprise me thatyou know lots from BC

I suspect California is also a high no vaccine state too.

The uneducated and religiously fundamentalist type dont vaccinate. The uneducated because they are perhaps poor, dont have healthcare.

The fundamentalist because they believe in no medicine ( some groups)

The other big group is the educated yuppie

Theones who know better than everyone.

They eat organic. They are wealthy

They get info from the Jenny mcCarthys of the world.

They read about annecdotal cases of reactions

They conveniently ignore the deaths from disease

They say measles is a minor disease, forgetting the deaths that occured in the past. And totally ignoring the morbidity


And yes, i expect that BC has more of this latter group of people. It is the hold over of the wildwest. The idea that we should be Libertarians. And not be told what to do.


Have drug companies made mistakes in the past? Sure. Thalidomide jumps to mind.

But we have been vaccinting for 50 years.

If someone doesnt want to vaccinte, it is their right. But it is our colective right that they not endanger anyone else. So restrictions should be made

Just think, you could be on a plane for 6 hours and the child behind you could have the start of measles, or chicken pox. And you are exposed, for hours

Or your child, sits beside some child at school who is unvaccinted and exposed and is sitting there , shedding virus for hours

And if someone who is medically compromised who cannot be vaccinated, sits beside a vaccinated child within a certain time of having their vaccination, they will expose that child to the virus too.

 

[Waterfall]

Is no one worried that the SMV virus ingrediant from rheasus monkeys in the polio vaccine was discontinued R/T to suspicion of causing cancers 10 or 20 years down the road?

 

[chansen]

Is no one worried that the SMV virus ingrediant from rheasus monkeys in the polio vaccine was discontinued R/T to suspicion of causing cancers 10 or 20 years down the road?

From Wikipedia:

In 1998, the National Cancer Institute undertook a large study, using cancer case information from the Institute's SEER database. The published findings from the study revealed that there was no increased incidence of cancer in persons who may have received vaccine containing SV40.[50] Another large study in Sweden examined cancer rates of 700,000 individuals who had received potentially contaminated polio vaccine as late as 1957; the study again revealed no increased cancer incidence between persons who received polio vaccines containing SV40 and those who did not.[51] The question of whether SV40 causes cancer in humans remains controversial however, and the development of improved assays for detection of SV40 in human tissues will be needed to resolve the controversy.[48]

Would you like polio now, or maybe (though the first studies don't show it) an increased risk of cancer later?

Think hard.

 

[Lastpointe]

Wow, what a photo.

This is what people forget

 

[chansen]

Wow, what a photo.

This is what people forget

It's not what I or others, like me, in our 40s or even 50s forgot. It's what we never knew. It's what we were shielded from.

By vaccines.

 

[Waterfall]

From Wikipedia:

Would you like polio now, or maybe (though the first studies don't show it) an increased rising risk of cancer later?

Think hard.

I would have taken the polio vaccine BUT even when they were aware of this problem and changed the vaccine they continued using the old vaccine until the old supply was used up. Just pointing out how more checks and balances should be in place.

 

[Lastpointe]

How terrible polio was. How frightening that picture is.

 

[chansen]

I would have taken the polio vaccine BUT even when they were aware of this problem and changed the vaccine they continued using the old vaccine until the old supply was used up. Just pointing out how more checks and balances should be in place.

And we do that now. But even with this example, no one has shown an increase cancer rate as a result. This stuff lives on through anti-vaxxers, who will cling to anything to justify their willful stupidity.

And as soon as someone like Kimmio knows of someone who got cancer after having this polio vaccine, all reason is thrown out the window because, hey, anecdote!

 

[Luce NDs]

Melamine was deadly to the lower food chain ... just because of ignorance to one critical food test.

Consider what future effect this has to the top of the fu' ed chain ... like a train of thought -2?

Utility and utilitarian Philosophy is a great sense of chaos to those that would like things only as they wish them ... quoted from some rex tale psycho pathe ,,, contrary to desiraddas ...

 

[Waterfall]

Well we just have to look how fast the ebola vaccine is being used before proper testing. The immediate danger vs the ethical long term testing. Most as you say would choose the vaccine. Once the crisis is over we or at least the people who had it, should be made aware of any problems that may arise from having it. Should the vaccine makers be exempt from future care IYO?

 

[chansen]

Well we just have to look how fast the ebola vaccine is being used before proper testing. The immediate danger vs the ethical long term testing. Most as you say would choose the vaccine. Once the crisis is over we or at least the people who had it, should be made aware of any problems that may arise from having it. Should the vaccine makers be exempt from future care IYO?

If they ignored or suppressed negative outcomes, yes. If they followed all protocol and regulatory steps truthfully and correctly, and something still went wrong, then no.

Who you want to question are regulatory bodies. Go after the FDA. Go after Health Canada. They're the ones who approve vaccines. No vaccine can be administered in Canada without their approval.

So, if there is anything wrong with their criteria, show us. Point it out. That's where people could make a difference, if there is one to be made.

 

[Lastpointe]

As i understand the ebola issue, the vaccine is being tested rapidly due to the immense human need. As thecrisis dies down testing will go back to normal.

What i have read is the fear, not that it will be poorly tested, but that once the crisis is over' work will slow down on the vaccine due to slowing need

Hopefully that won't happen

 

[Waterfall]

If they ignored or suppressed negative outcomes, yes. If they followed all protocol and regulatory steps truthfully and correctly, and something still went wrong, then no.

Who you want to question are regulatory bodies. Go after the FDA. Go after Health Canada. They're the ones who approve vaccines. No vaccine can be administered in Canada without their approval.

So, if there is anything wrong with their criteria, show us. Point it out. That's where people could make a difference, if there is one to be made.

Did you forget that the drug company has immunity and cannot be held liable?

 

[Luce NDs]

A CEO of a large corporation told me that he was frightened by what I know (actually very little in the infinite case) ... and then he retreated from me as he would rather do what he wished and not consider the small bits that I knew could eventually cut his throat if he went ahead with the standing plan to make money no matter what!

Eventually I was totally isolated as my intelligence was not conducive to corporate desires to screw the population. This is common (koine) in all monster corporate concerns (ans)!

And I recessed into a state of being a stooped numb ass ... secretly of course in a sacred sense ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Is that complex in a world that desires only the KISS Principle? Thus it is best toby stooped ... have a back porch to escape 2 ... sometimes an underground escape route as a souer of thoughts ... Psyche?

Few appear to desire this conclusion or perceptive NDs ...

 

[Justme]

I'm not saying kids should never get chicken pox vaccine but maybe they need to fill in the gaps like investigating the rise in adult shingles before flooding the market with the vaccine.

I showed you six studies that showed that the rise in shingles started BEFORE the chicken pox vaccine or that there is not a conclusive link - any more than the fact that consumption of organic food leads to autism (both increased at the same time). There was also no evidence to suggest an increase in shingles for those who are not elderly (despite what you have heard).

Also, sugar is bad for us in large quantities as is fat from unhealthy sources - increased consumption does seem to be linked to increases in diabetes, obesity, hypertension, etc but there is no link to the measles or chicken pox or mumps or whatever. North American diets do need an overhaul - three times more children will be obese in the next decade according to last night's CTV news but that has nothing to do with this current topic.And none of the links you posted make that leap either.

I'm with Pinga on the whole sin tax and legislating helmets and seat belts and I think vaccination should be mandatory - it saves way more lives than it negatively impacts.

 

[Justme]

I am sure I do not understand ... what is the point of vaccinations if they don't protect you from the unvaccinated?

People who can be vaccinated and chose to be vacinated are protected but there is a certain segment of society who cannot be vaccinated and who, sadly, are probably most at risk if they were to get these preventable illnesses. Therefore you are risking their lives (like a paedetrician in the US said recently - the kids undergoing chemo, etc). Also vaccines - as many have pointed out - are not 100% foolproof in some cases.

 

[Luce NDs]

A whole bunch of studies that prove what we don't know ...

And we insist on a'moor? Moderation in fat, sugar, booze, women, etc ...

Yet do we despise mental medium ... thinking in-between emotional outbursts? Some people don't even believe that soul can hide between the light lines ... but then if they didn't wish to know!

 

[Justme]

Can anyone think of any acquired chronic conditions that we've known about for awhile that were treated for a long time in many people but they actually instead found a cure for? I can't. Better, more expensive, treatments but not cures. Unless somebody knows some.

Joint replacements spring to mind.

And they have made huge inroads in research for type 1 diabetes (they can grow pancreaes in a lab now). Oh and some of the MS studies look pretty promising. We're not there yet but science is evolving. And there is a lot of money put toward mitigating risk including funds directed by the drug companies you seem to hate.

 

[Luce NDs]

Excessive naïveté? Do you know how many metaphors reside there ...

Then these could be literary devices and not literal ....