How does one "choose" a Belief System?

[BetteTheRed]

Monk, your questions about money as a belief system are very interesting, and I do see the relationship. Pavlos is actually wrong. Canada abandoned the gold standard in 1933. There are certainly some international standards around reserves, but the U.S. is fond of deregulating those sort of things, because billionaires like the flexibility to make way more $, and as we saw from the 2008 crash, the system is not shockproof when the gods (the brokerage houses, the stockbroker math wizards and those billionaires) get overly greedy. We are called to believe in this system, and trust it with our paycheques or our pensions. Did everyone hear about the latest snafu with the Phoenix Payroll system? Sent out many incorrect T4s. One poor guy got a T4 for $40,000 MORE than he was paid. And they've been submitted electronically to the CRA like that.

 

[Pavlos Maros]

Heck, I loved someone from another church enough to marry her.

Even forgave her for being Presbyterian.

It is what christianity as a whole does. Not one individual.

 

[Mendalla]

Did everyone hear about the latest snafu with the Phoenix Payroll system? Sent out many incorrect T4s. One poor guy got a T4 for $40,000 MORE than he was paid. And they've been submitted electronically to the CRA like that.

Yup. Lovely little mess and not a single politician or senior bureaucrat has lost their job over it yet. What a freakin' mess.

 

[Jaebius]

You may not have told them to fear god, but others have. However just because you haven't told them they should fear god, doesn't mean they haven't come to that conclusion, after all the bibles tell them they will be judge which means god is watching them at all times.You do realize there is a book attached to your religion that isn't all sweetness and light or filled with funny pages.

You can talk about as much as you like, doesn't mean it's true. If your nieghbour does not think as you do. (That is the general you not you personally) They are ostracized, I am not saying this happens every where but it happens enough to show that christians do not love their neighbours.

Such utter nonsense. You should see the friendships that develop among Christians of various stripes at my transdenominational seminary. Why, I myself have friends who are Presbyterians, UCCanada, Methodists, Pentecostals, Anglicans, Seventh Day Adventists, Messianic Jews, Lutherans, even a few Baptists.

 

[Seeler]

say America for instance, Where organizations are railing against civil rights. I.E. same sex marriages, womans right.etc etc. It is almost always religiously motivated.
Religion seeks to oppress not love. but it does it in the guise of making it's adherent believe they are doing the right thing.



My church is Affirming. We support same-sex marriage - I've attended several at my church. We host Rainbow luncheons, and afirm children with two dads or two moms. We support women's rights (including reproductive rights). We pressure governments (municipal, provincial and federal) regarding abuses to civil rights.

 

[Seeler]

Pavlos - you are lumping all Christians with a vocal group on the far right mainly from the southern US and unfortunately supporting the American president right now - your views do not reflect on mainstream Christianity.

 

[Jaebius]

Pablos - you are lumping all Christians with a vocal group on the far right - your views do not reflect on mainstream Christianity.

They don't even accurately reflect on many churches on the right.

 

[Ritafee]

Pavlos, it's obvious that you don't know much about Christianity .....

and even less about 'money' ... seems to be a lot of blind faith in the power of money world wide ... talk about brainwashing.

 

[GeoFee]

Hi Pavlos,

First faith has zero basis in reality

This being verified by what empirical evidence? Or is it just something you want very much to be true?

The bible, an historical narrative metaphorically documenting the experience of a people in history, suggests that faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. Wilbur and Orville exercised faith. On the basis of their insights and abilities they imagined the possibility of flight. Were they scorned? Certainly regarded as somewhat off centre. To be sure no one had ever seen a flying machine. But Wilbur and Orville could see it in their mind's eye. Their hope was realized, as was their seeing of things not seen. Faith is not much more than trust in the worth of effort expended in hope of achieving a goal in view.

Bias distorts inquiry seeking verification of truth and eradication of error. You have good reasons to succeed in your enterprise. Eliminating the bias will serve your aspirations well.

Don't get me wrong. I recognize and appreciate your notice of religion misused and abused. What you seem unable or unwilling to see is the outcomes following the right use of religion. If you like I am able to provide you with some simple examples.

An interesting read which you may appreciated: "Did Schweitzer Believe in God?"

George

 

[blackbelt1961]

Pavlos, it's obvious that you don't know much about Christianity except perhaps the far right.

As a parent, grandparent, teacher, I have never told a child (or anyone) that God is watching them all the time, and certainly I have never indicated that they should fear God or held out the promise of heaven or hell (which are far down on my BS).

As for your statement "No religious person can love their neighbour. Unless of course the neighbour is of the same church." Could you explain that a bit. I'm serious. I do lay pulpit supply. I will be talking about Love of Neighbour at my next service.
My next door neighbour and friend is Roman Catholic (we have some great discussions). My across the street neighbour is Baptist. We've been friends for over 40 years. A few years ago we had a Buddhist student from Bhutan live with us for two years - I learned a lot about spirituality from him. I have other friends and neighbours who do not attend any church / some who self-identify as atheists. Yet you state as a fact "No religious person can love their neighbour."

My Mother in law is palliative, she lives with us so we have nurses come in 4 hrs a day so we can have some relief, any how , one nurse last week said to us, I know your christian and we have different prophets but we worship the same God so would you mind If i pray for your mom, we said for sure you can and thank you .

Pavlos is just assuming things

 

[blackbelt1961]

No religious person can love their neighbour. Unless of course the neighbour is of the same church.

sorry but this is so laughable , never mind love thy neighbour, do you know how many cross religion marriages there are ?

not only do they love them, they want to make babies with them

 

[Ritafee]

You may not have told them to fear god, but others have. However just because you haven't told them they should fear god, doesn't mean they haven't come to that conclusion, after all the bibles tell them they will be judge which means god is watching them at all times.You do realize there is a book attached to your religion that isn't all sweetness and light or filled with funny pages.

It seems that now you are confusing god with state surveillance - a belief system that indoctrinates children into being afraid of their neighbor - a belief system that law enforcement and intelligence gathering are a necessary infringement on personal liberty to guard national security.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

My Mother in law is palliative, she lives with us so we have nurses come in 4 hrs a day so we can have some relief, any how , one nurse last week said to us, I know your christian and we have different prophets but we worship the same God so would you mind If i pray for your mom, we said for sure you can and thank you .

Pavlos is just assuming things

Well, that tugged on my heart strings. I'm sorry about your mother in law. I hope and pray you and your wife are managing okay, also.

 

[PilgrimsProgress]

My faith journey started out with no beliefs.....
When I was four we lived with my great Aunt who was religious and attended a "High Anglican" church. As she played the church organ, I went with her and remember sitting on a little stool beside the organ.
I didn't believe anything I just took in the strange costumes, sounds and music.

When I was seven our family was allocated a Housing Commission home. As Mum was an atheist and Dad's allegiance was to the Communist Party we didn't attend any church. One day there was a knock on the door and a girl of about ten asked Mum was there any kids in the house who wanted to attend Sunday School? Mum asked me and my five years old sister - we said yes. This girl came and collected us every Sunday and took us to the Salvation Army hall. (Imagine these days just handing over your kids to a very young stranger!) I remember being disappointed because I wasn't given a tambourine - just a wilted palm to wave on one Palm Sunday. I was given a small picture and I read "God is Love" - it's the only belief that has stuck with me right through life..
When I was a teen-ager I became very evangelical and, although not talking in tongues, I did use rather strange speech. I spent a lot of time declaring Christ as my personal Saviour -and asking complete strangers were they saved? When I learnt that my atheist mother and Communist Dad would not be going to Heaven I became an agnostic and that's where I remained for many years.
When my husband was very ill I had what is often referred to as a religious experience. To this day I haven't been able to understand it - but it did have me exploring faith again.
In my long break from any church there was growth of Progressive Christianity - which made more sense to me than literal Biblical Christianity. I still support many social justice ideas of Progressive Christianity - but, since my experience, I believed in a God who was more than just concerned with minority groups -but in us as individuals, too.
Hence Process theology aligns with my beliefs these days......

One last thing - I'm now of the opinion that belief is not nearly as important as what we practice in life. Whether we believe it or not - our faith is surely how we act with others.......

 

[Pavlos Maros]

Pavlos - you are lumping all Christians with a vocal group on the far right mainly from the southern US and unfortunately supporting the American president right now - your views do not reflect on mainstream Christianity.

Christianity is everywhere not just Canada and the Us. So no I'm not lumping all Christians with a vocal group on the far right mainly from the southern US. The Us hasn't got the monopoly. Russia, Northern Ireland, Mynamar, China, Israel, Indonesia, Uganda, India, Lebanon, and the central african republic. As said some Christians try to be nice all over the world. But in general the cant love there neighbour.

Are you seriously telling me that every christian adheres to this.
Leviticus 19:9 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.

10 And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the Lord your God.

11 Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.

12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.

13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.

14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.

15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the Lord.

17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

If a wican/scientology/muslim/Hindu etc. Wanted to marry your daughter and have her convert.
If a wican/scientology/muslim/Hindu etc. Wanted to put up a church in your street right next to you.

Would that be ok?
Ask that of every christian what do you think the answer would be.
There literally hundreds of questions like these.

 

[Pavlos Maros]

and even less about 'money' ... seems to be a lot of blind faith in the power of money world wide ... talk about brainwashing.

Lol. Care to show me where. Excuse the pun, "Put you money were your mouth is"

 

[Pinga]

My struggle would not be on the choice of conversion, it would be that it wasn't my daughter making the choice. It seems like a control isdue

 

[Pavlos Maros]

Hi Pavlos,
This being verified by what empirical evidence?

The complete lack of any.

 

[Seeler]

Christianity is everywhere not just Canada and the Us. So no I'm not lumping all Christians with a vocal group on the far right mainly from the southern US. The Us hasn't got the monopoly. Russia, Northern Ireland, Mynamar, China, Israel, Indonesia, Uganda, India, Lebanon, and the central african republic. As said some Christians try to be nice all over the world. But in general the cant love there neighbour.

Leviticus 19:9 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.

10 And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the Lord your God.

11 Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.

12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.

13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.

14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.

15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the Lord.

17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

If a wican/scientology/muslim/Hindu etc. Wanted to marry your daughter and have her convert.
If a wican/scientology/muslim/Hindu etc. Wanted to put up a church in your street right next to you.

Would that be ok?
Ask that of every christian what do you think the answer would be.
There literally hundreds of questions like these.

As I understand your post, every person who claims to be a christian has to live up to these ideals at all times or the whole idea of Christianity is evil.
Who my daughter marries is her choice once she is an adult. I would like her to be happy. My son lives in another country. People ask me how I would feel if he marries someone there? Actually, I would be delighted if he found a partner.
My cousin tells me that the Wiccans who bought the abandon farm next to her home are excellent neighbours. She only worries that they may be a bit naive about their hopes to 'get back to the land'.
There is a Hindu temple and a muslim Mosque within walking distance of my home. My house is on a small crescent with single-family houses. It would require rezoning to have anything else built on this street but I don't see how it would do any harm.
I don't know anything about scientology but I can't see any reason to object to them living or worshipping in the vacinity.
What every Christian would answer I don't know. I would expect a variety of answers. I can only answer for this Christian.

 

[Pavlos Maros]

As I understand your post, every person who claims to be a christian has to live up to these ideals at all times or the whole idea of Christianity is evil.

No. However you cannot claim that christianity loves it neighbour. Because clearly it doesn't. Christianity is after all following jesus christ's lead.

What every Christian would answer I don't know. I would expect a variety of answers. I can only answer for this Christian.

Exactly. You are talking about yourself, whereas I'm talking about christianity in general. You (General you) cant claim that christianity is all pure and lovely when it isn't.