Jesus was a person. God is an idea and to many a Creator of all for many and explaining the Holy Ghost is a Mystery. which has no reasonable explanation - therefore problems all solved If you just accept these explanations, it is easy - if you question the information, it becomes difficult Children have the unique ability to question - perhaps it is innocence that enables them to question and challenge what is taught
How do you explain the Trinity to kids?
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revjohn
Well-Known Member
Waterfall said:Well I'm just going by the analogy of God being the original and any "change" made is corrupting the original.
I get that.
I think the problem is that you are thinking of Jesus as separate from God. Which is actually a common problem.
Jesus is God but Jesus is not the Father.
The Father is God but the Father is not the Son.
Neither the Father nor the Son are the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is God but the Holy Spirit is neither The Father or the Son.
One God, who is identified as God.
Three persons identified as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Okay, I am being honest in the dialogue - so who or what is the Holy Spirit
because it will help to understand how the linking of Genesis to NT works, will help me to understand Jesus as supernatural, and possibly help me to understand Easter and Salvation Not mocking - serious about these questions, never answered well - the leap of faith is always the go to reply to these questions - and children are very inquisitive - logic works for them, being told what to believe does not
revjohn
Well-Known Member
redhead said:
An interesting character who apparently has a lot of things to do but little dialogue to tell us about it.
The Holy Spirit is the Advocate that Jesus promises his Father will send after Jesus goes away. The Holy Spirit hovered over the waters at Creation and is referred to as Wisdom in the book of Proverbs. Also referred to as the mind of God.
We know more about what the Holy Spirit does than we know about who it is.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
to Crossan , God is an Idea , to Main stream believers, God is a reality
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
Neo
Well-Known Member
How about a less theological definition of God... is it sacrilegious or blasphemous see God the Cosmos as such? From the book A Treatise on Cosmic Fire:
"There is one Boundless Immutable Principle; one Absolute Reality which antecedes all manifested conditioned Being. It is beyond the range and reach of any human thought or expression.
The manifested Universe is contained within this Absolute Reality and is a conditioned symbol of it. In the totality of this manifested Universe, three aspects are to be conceived.
1. The First Cosmic Logos, impersonal and unmanifested, the precursor of the Manifested.
2. The Second Cosmic Logos, Spirit-Matter, Life, the Spirit of the Universe.
3. The Third Cosmic Logos, Cosmic Ideation, the Universal World-Soul.
From these basic creative principles, in successive gradations there issue in ordered sequence the numberless Universes comprising countless Manifesting Stars and Solar Systems.
Each Solar System is the manifestation of the energy and life of a great Cosmic Existence, Whom we call, for lack of a better term, a Solar Logos.
● This Solar Logos incarnates, or comes into manifestation, through the medium of a solar system
● This solar system is the body, or form, of this cosmic Life, and is itself triple.
● This triple solar system can be described in terms of three aspects, or (as the Christian theology puts it) in terms of three Persons.
ELECTRIC FIRE, or SPIRIT
1st Person - Father, Life, Will, Purpose, Positive energy.
SOLAR FIRE, or SOUL
2nd Person - Son, Consciousness, Love-Wisdom, Equilibrized energy.
FIRE BY FRICTION (Body or Matter)
3rd Person - Holy Spirit, Form, Active Intelligence, Negative energy.
Each of these three is also triple in manifestation, making therefore
a. The nine Potencies or Emanations.
b. The nine Sephiroth.
c. The nine Causes of Initiation. "
"There is one Boundless Immutable Principle; one Absolute Reality which antecedes all manifested conditioned Being. It is beyond the range and reach of any human thought or expression.
The manifested Universe is contained within this Absolute Reality and is a conditioned symbol of it. In the totality of this manifested Universe, three aspects are to be conceived.
1. The First Cosmic Logos, impersonal and unmanifested, the precursor of the Manifested.
2. The Second Cosmic Logos, Spirit-Matter, Life, the Spirit of the Universe.
3. The Third Cosmic Logos, Cosmic Ideation, the Universal World-Soul.
From these basic creative principles, in successive gradations there issue in ordered sequence the numberless Universes comprising countless Manifesting Stars and Solar Systems.
Each Solar System is the manifestation of the energy and life of a great Cosmic Existence, Whom we call, for lack of a better term, a Solar Logos.
● This Solar Logos incarnates, or comes into manifestation, through the medium of a solar system
● This solar system is the body, or form, of this cosmic Life, and is itself triple.
● This triple solar system can be described in terms of three aspects, or (as the Christian theology puts it) in terms of three Persons.
ELECTRIC FIRE, or SPIRIT
1st Person - Father, Life, Will, Purpose, Positive energy.
SOLAR FIRE, or SOUL
2nd Person - Son, Consciousness, Love-Wisdom, Equilibrized energy.
FIRE BY FRICTION (Body or Matter)
3rd Person - Holy Spirit, Form, Active Intelligence, Negative energy.
Each of these three is also triple in manifestation, making therefore
a. The nine Potencies or Emanations.
b. The nine Sephiroth.
c. The nine Causes of Initiation. "
revjohn
Well-Known Member
redhead said:
You're welcome.
redhead said:
Present in Genesis 1: 1 Prior to any actual Creating happening. Which suggests that the person existed before anything that was created.
redhead said:
Of what I have shared nothing that I can see. I haven't gone deeply into detail because I don't have the space or the time to try anything exhaustive. In the OT we rarely find the term "Holy Spirit" (8X) although we do have references to the Spirit of God or even Spirit of the Holy God. in the NT we cannot help but trip over the term as it appears 96 times. Almost half of the references are found in the book of Acts.
redhead said:
I get that.
Bear in mind that a lot of recent biblical scholarship around the Holy Spirit is still reacting to the charismatic movement (and excesses) which began in the 1960s.
So what does it mean that even Jesus said he wasn't good, and that only God alone is good? (it has me thinking of the Jewish definition of 3 - one being unity and simplicity...2 tension, complexity...3 the synthesis of two opposites). Was Jesus human and imperfect? If he said he is "not good" does that still make him sinless? If only God is good, is "God" the synthesis of two opposites making one unified whole?
Is Jesus not good because of his fall from darkness ... the mystery of God or all that is out there beyond us an in-Nous?
If God is an idea ... would this suggest god is affiliated with a' psyche ... and if psyche can't be observed physically ... is a' psyche event purely impossible except in the dreaming thereof? A' hole in reality?
Is that ominous to those looking to the omnipotent, etc ... alelse, or perhaps Lilleth as a small dark point when the Eire was cut down ... literary rendering of what was previously literal as sign of something other?
If God is an idea ... would this suggest god is affiliated with a' psyche ... and if psyche can't be observed physically ... is a' psyche event purely impossible except in the dreaming thereof? A' hole in reality?
Is that ominous to those looking to the omnipotent, etc ... alelse, or perhaps Lilleth as a small dark point when the Eire was cut down ... literary rendering of what was previously literal as sign of something other?
revjohn
Well-Known Member
Kimmio said:
It is a rhetorical device meant to lead the audience to a conclusion.
In context, A rich young ruler approaches Jesus and asks, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" Why would he be asking Jesus? Who ultimately hands out such a plum as eternal life?
Jesus responds, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone."
Which is Jesus making two declarative statements and only one statement permits him to be addressed as good. So, either Jesus is God and the rich young ruler rightly comes to him asking about eternal life or, Jesus is not God and the rich young ruler is wasting everyone's time.
It is rhetorical because according to the narrative Jesus asks the question but doesn't give the rich young ruler time to answer. Instead he launches into answering the rich young rulers question about eternal life, as if he believes he is qualified to answer it.
If he is God then he is qualified to provide and answer.
If he is not God then he is at the very least speaking out of turn.
revjohn
Well-Known Member
redhead said:
I've never heard that.
Consensus indicates that the author of Luke is also the author of Acts. I suspect it would take something especially seismic to lead most to a conclusion that the books had separate authors.
The book of Revelation appears to have two main camps. It was either written by the Apostle John or somebody else also named John (not an uncommon name in the area at the time--Though it is not known if every Tom, Dick and Harry was named John). I have never heard authorship of Revelation attributed to Luke. If you have a source for that I would be interested in looking at it.
Hermann
Well-Known Member
In the early days of Christianity, quite a few Christian were Arians (followers of the Alexandrian Christian teacher Arius) The Germanic tribes that overran the Roman Empire (Visigoths, Ostrogoth, Vandals, and others) were Arians. There even was an Arian Bible written in Gothic language and script by the Arian Bishop Wulfila.
One of Arius' writings was a gospel written in the form of a prose poem named "Thalia." When Arianism was declared a heresy by the Roman Church, the writings of Arius were banned and burned, but fragments of the Thalia survived in quotes of others. From these fragments Friedrich Schiller wrote a poem entitled Lied der Freude (Ode to Joy) which Beethoven set to music and incorporated into his 9th Symphony. The Ode to Joy has become somewhat of an international anthem, a piece of Arianism that survived to this day.
I believe he was good. I also believe he was a human being and so I wonder if he ever made a mistake in his whole natural life - because if he did he would be fully human. And I don't have a problem with that. It wouldn't be disappointing to me. God created human beings perfect - with a fault - as illustrated in the Adam and Eve story- the fall.. So maybe having faults and making mistakes doesn't equal "imperfection" - maybe that's just how we learn and evolve. Just like every other human, I don't believe Jesus was born knowing everything.
Then there is the whole myth about the fate of Ares and the problem with the Elysium Sacrum and the charge against that goddess for revealing herself commonly. The judges let her go when they say in de Light that chi was a but-tai ... and eve rsince in Hebrew Legend the head of the bare elle as hid ... has been a great place to declare undis-clothed art forms ... Alex Colville did a magnificent job of a lass at her dresser.
The whole string of myths reeks of the stoning of the harlot by the side of the road for revealing her sexuality. In certain company this is required to complete the rights of what chi wishes if within reason ... maybe the freedom to become literate? from then on chi'z goan a' say it how it's Toby! Then we learn about dark things ...
And Thalia busted out of the oppressed life ...