Guaranteed Liveable Income - what's happening in your area?

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Mendalla said:
Are they going to index it, though? That's what really needs to be happening with minimum wage. Raise it annually by the average rate of pay increases or something like that. No more ad hoc, when the government feels like it increases but actually having it keep up with the economy.
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Not sure. Good question.
 
Carolla said:
I do agree that all of us do not know the cost of things we receive that are subsidized by government or sometimes paid by private insurance. We are rarely told of the cost - I've often thought it would be helpful to publicize the general costs. For example in health care - how much does blood work cost? What about an x-ray, MRI, a day of hospital stay? A visit to the Emerg dept vs visit to the doctor's office (if we have one). Most of us have no idea of the numbers. . I recall being stunned by what I had to pay for veterinary services - blood work etc. A day of public school? The actual cost of a ride on city transit? These are not 'free' as we may be accustomed to thinking about them.
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There is work in determining that cost and it becomes a game sucking resources and driving costs
 
Waterfall said:
Minimum wage will now be going up to $16.55/hr. federally as of April 1/23.
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Thanks for that Waterfall. I agree that increasing minimum wage is helpful - and it's important to note that it's still vastly below what a 'liveable wage' is in most places in Canada. For example, here in the GTA the living wage published last Nov is just over $23/hour. Here's a chart indicating living wage rates across Canada. At the top of the chart you can link to more detailed info in most provinces.
 
And then there is the cost to the environment. My coworker wondered who would keep turning her computer off ( me), she only works two days a week with us. Complained that it then is slow to get started.
As if nobody knows what is going on in the world. What would be the cost for the cheap stuff from the dollar store, if we calculated the price for the environmental impact ( resources, transport from China, filling the garbage dump) into the price?
 
JayneWonders said:
There is work in determining that cost and it becomes a game sucking resources and driving costs
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Of course. I'm not really thinking about it needing to be generated on an individualized per visit basis, but a general annual statement of expense might be helpful.
 
Carolla said:
Of course. I'm not really thinking about it needing to be generated on an individualized per visit basis, but a general annual statement of expense might be helpful.
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I'm not sure how that helps. I honestly don't think that the general population, as a whole, abuses healthcare, and of those that do, I suspect few would care what it costs the system. Most are more like me, loathe to go to the doctor unless absolutely necessary, prone to getting tested for stuff less than half as often as they recommend, etc. Actually went for a long, long-delayed physical last month, and first words out of her mouth were "Holy s**t, B, you didn't cancel!"...
 
BetteTheRed said:
An interesting question. Under GMI, there will still be people who will gamble/drink/drug away all of their money for a month, and will then still need assistance, or starve.

GMI doesn't fix broken situations.
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The faults of a few have always been used as an excuse to not help the many when it comes to the poor but not for the rich. If the basic income was provided on a weekly basis, it would reduce the abuse.

The millenia old belief that poor people deserve to be poor has been a disease in society for too long. Most programs that provide financial support to poor people have a much higher marginal tax rate than what is paid by people with a much higher income. The higher marginal tax rate reduces the incentive to work. Wealthy people pay half as much tax on capital gains even though that benefit rarely benefits production. Their risk on investments is less than that for students inverting in post secondary education.
 
jimkenney12 said:
The faults of a few have always been used as an excuse to not help the many when it comes to the poor but not for the rich. If the basic income was provided on a weekly basis, it would reduce the abuse.

The millenia old belief that poor people deserve to be poor has been a disease in society for too long. Most programs that provide financial support to poor people have a much higher marginal tax rate than what is paid by people with a much higher income. The higher marginal tax rate reduces the incentive to work. Wealthy people pay half as much tax on capital gains even though that benefit rarely benefits production. Their risk on investments is less than that for students inverting in post secondary education.
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I'm curious how it would reduce abuse?
 
jimkenney12 said:
The faults of a few have always been used as an excuse to not help the many when it comes to the poor but not for the rich. If the basic income was provided on a weekly basis, it would reduce the abuse.

The millenia old belief that poor people deserve to be poor has been a disease in society for too long. Most programs that provide financial support to poor people have a much higher marginal tax rate than what is paid by people with a much higher income. The higher marginal tax rate reduces the incentive to work. Wealthy people pay half as much tax on capital gains even though that benefit rarely benefits production. Their risk on investments is less than that for students inverting in post secondary education.
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Yet even the poor people are led to believe they are useless by some power of what else ... mind (easily corrupted by what)?

The question what is qui! So it goes around unresolved as the light under the midnight son ... said to be dark ... diabolical time when one can do the MLK thing and dream! Some of us dream constructively ... others destroy their neighbour ... there is a sacred item there!
 
JayneWonders said:
I'm curious how it would reduce abuse?
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Like various dullness it would take time to sink in ... that fact that abuse is destructive. Many would not accept such sentient resolution because they've been taught to beat the alternate down into descent ... allows considerable vegetation for absorption ofde light ... all under a tree!
 
JayneWonders said:
I'm curious how it would reduce abuse?
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When CERB came out many people who had broken their addictions were targeted by dealers because they suddenly had $2000 of free money. If they had only $300 to $500 per week, they would not such attractive targets. If the money was deposited in their checqueing accounts, it would be easier to buy food and other stuff than it would be to buy drugs. It would not stop people who want to buy drugs from doing so, but it would help those trying to escape drugs.

For people who lack housing and, therefore, probably bank accounts, appropriate agencies could secure addresses and bank accounts with provision for payment for shelter being the first expense each week.

If we start with the goal of helping each person as they need to be helped, we can find ways for basic income to be helpful for them.

I would amend the banking act to require financial institutions with personal chequeing accounts to provide low cost chequing accounts for people with incomes under $50,000 that include debit cards, a few counter cheques each month, unlimited point of sale debits, and five withdrawals per month for less than $5/month. Fifteen years ago I got a better account than that free just because I was 60 years old.
 
I'm not sure that I agree. If you get money daily, weekly, or monthly, you will be a target of those who want your money.
 
jimkenney12 said:
When CERB came out many people who had broken their addictions were targeted by dealers because they suddenly had $2000 of free money. If they had only $300 to $500 per week, they would not such attractive targets. If the money was deposited in their checqueing accounts, it would be easier to buy food and other stuff than it would be to buy drugs. It would not stop people who want to buy drugs from doing so, but it would help those trying to escape drugs.

For people who lack housing and, therefore, probably bank accounts, appropriate agencies could secure addresses and bank accounts with provision for payment for shelter being the first expense each week.

If we start with the goal of helping each person as they need to be helped, we can find ways for basic income to be helpful for them.

I would amend the banking act to require financial institutions with personal chequeing accounts to provide low cost chequing accounts for people with incomes under $50,000 that include debit cards, a few counter cheques each month, unlimited point of sale debits, and five withdrawals per month for less than $5/month. Fifteen years ago I got a better account than that free just because I was 60 years old.
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Couldn't do that ... imagine how those that have would bitch about insignificant losses ... penny pinching and cherry picking overlap in the forest of duller nature ... thus rain on the plain ...
 
JayneWonders said:
I'm not sure that I agree. If you get money daily, weekly, or monthly, you will be a target of those who want your money.
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Many of them are already targets for when they get their monthly child credit cheques and the like. I would require the basic income payments to be electronically deposited in chequeing accounts. When people are paid by cheques, they get targeted at the places where they cash their cheques.
 
jimkenney12 said:
I would amend the banking act to require financial institutions with personal chequeing accounts to provide low cost chequing accounts for people with incomes under $50,000 that include debit cards, a few counter cheques each month, unlimited point of sale debits, and five withdrawals per month for less than $5/month. Fifteen years ago I got a better account than that free just because I was 60 years old.
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I agree. It is actually totally shameful that banks have not voluntarily done this.
 
Many of our systems (banking included) are set up in ways that perpetuate living in poverty. We'll give you some money - but not enough to make life less stressful so you could actually get ahead. If you get off income support - there can be lots of other unanticipated consequences (eg loss of drug coverage - this can be a huge expense for some folks) - can sometimes make it untenable. Enough for subsistence life - not enough to give your kids any extra-curriculars, or post secondary education, buy a car, do many things we may take for granted. I think we have to take a wider systemic view of the situation of generational poverty & how we are maintaining that.
 
I saw an article a few days ago about our system of capitalism depending on maintaining poverty. Corporations need a pool of poor people to help them coerce the middle class into giving concessions that are unfair.
 
jimkenney12 said:
I saw an article a few days ago about our system of capitalism depending on maintaining poverty. Corporations need a pool of poor people to help them coerce the middle class into giving concessions that are unfair.
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This seems to be part of the conspiracy because nobody would do nothing as there were no uncomfortable people. At least some rip the others off so as to break the monotony ... and initiate an urge to organize ... to which the comfortable protest and declare protests are evil so the commoners won't and thus life ends ... bored into a deep state of peculiar pathae!

Some label this apathy as disinterested portions that fallout of a greater system ... said to be entire worlds constructed of the disinterested in the opposing sex ... a queer world? Some have even added politics to the odd parts ...

Thus duelling dix and other vacant parts ... di Xi Land ... comes ashore ... as Wahl 'd Abstract ... Tah Pastry ...

Little is known of "a" as an unknown word appearing as pasty and generally tacky ... thus adherence to god knows what ... could all be a bust! These naked things are also loaded with debate ...
 
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