The bible tells us in Genesis that God's spirit moved over the water and Isaiah says the spirit was involved in the creation of the universe. The spirit of truth testifies for God always.
God in our Image?
- Thread starter PilgrimsProgress
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Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
And that answer my questions how?
PilgrimsProgress
Well-Known Member
I'm one of those who came to Christianity though a conversion experience, so I can see this to some extent. But often the changes made are about where the person has thoughts/feelings of guilt or inadequacy or helplessness.
But what of our thoughts/feelings that we think are ethical and just? How would we feel if it could be hypothetically proved that God was, say, against same sex marriage?
PilgrimsProgress
Well-Known Member
So how do you discern false witness? Those that think differently to you?
Only God is good.
No, those who contradict Gods teachings.
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
And so no one who doesn't believe in God can be good? And you are aware that this is an unprovable statement of faith, right?
But how do you know their interpretation of God's teachings isn't the correct one? What makes your understanding of it correct? Maybe Unsafe and Pontifex are the ones who are correct.
PilgrimsProgress
Well-Known Member
Which are? Which gets back to my original thought - that we create God in our own image. Otherwise we'd all accept the same teachings. If only God and his philosophy was as clearcut as mathematics. (I was going to say science - but when I think of the climate keffuffle we are going down the path of seeing science in our own image, too!)
How I long for God (who I do follow) to address us all with a clearcut, unambiguous message of what God actually believes.
Spell it out God before we humans stuff up your world in OUR name.
How do you know 1+1 is 2 and not 3? Do you think God isn't logical with his teachings?
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Mendalla ---your quote ----And so no one who doesn't believe in God can be good
What is the foundation for good ----God is the foundation for goodness ----on what grounds do we determine whether or not something is good ---who has the authority to determine what is good or bad if not God ?
Waterfall said: ↑
No, those who contradict Gods teachings.
Mendalla -----your quote -----But how do you know their interpretation of God's teachings isn't the correct one?
John 16:5-15 (NKJV)
The Work of the Holy Spirit
12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.
unsafe says
The Holy Spirit will direct the truth of the scriptures to the person -----the Holy Spirit will never veer from the scriptures ---anyone who contradicts scripture is bearing false witness ---and is considered by God to be a false teacher ----there is no in-between with God when it comes to His Word which He says is truth -----if you veer from the truth then it is a lie and is misleading -----
What is the foundation for good ----God is the foundation for goodness ----on what grounds do we determine whether or not something is good ---who has the authority to determine what is good or bad if not God ?
Waterfall said: ↑
No, those who contradict Gods teachings.
Mendalla -----your quote -----But how do you know their interpretation of God's teachings isn't the correct one?
John 16:5-15 (NKJV)
The Work of the Holy Spirit
12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.
unsafe says
The Holy Spirit will direct the truth of the scriptures to the person -----the Holy Spirit will never veer from the scriptures ---anyone who contradicts scripture is bearing false witness ---and is considered by God to be a false teacher ----there is no in-between with God when it comes to His Word which He says is truth -----if you veer from the truth then it is a lie and is misleading -----
revjohn
Well-Known Member
Mendalla said:
Read in context Jesus is saying only God is good. Neither the faithful nor the faithless qualify as good.
As far as "doing the right thing" Jesus doesn't seem to be all that jazzed about thinking only the faithful can manage it.
Mendalla said:
Historically that has been the usefulness of a community of faith. The wisdom of the elders combined rather than some sort of wisdom off between competing duelists.
Here Jesus is saying that he is God.
revjohn
Well-Known Member
Jae said:
Actually he doesn't say that he is God in that context.
That is the clear inference of his comment.
In all of the synoptics the conversation appears as such, "Why do you (call me/ask me) about good (what is)? There is none good but God."
So either he is not a good teacher or he is God. The challenge is made to the individual asking about what good can be done to get eternal life.
The individual the question is put to never gives an answer by the way.
Jesus is humble, so he doesn't want to come right out and say that he's God. However, that he is God is absolutely the truth that he's sharing here. He wants the man to get it. To put the pieces together and come up with the only answer possible - that Jesus is Lord and God and King.
Seeler
Well-Known Member
While I find it hard to believe that someone who doesn't exhibit very many 'fruits of the spirit' can be a Christian, no matter how much he claims to be (Trump comes to mind), I do believe that a non-Christian can exhibit those qualities that we recognize as 'fruits of the spirit'. Perhaps the spirit can work within a person without being recognized as such.
PilgrimsProgress
Well-Known Member
What I'm trying to suggest is that the way you see God is how YOU think God is like.
God's worldview, morality are how YOU see God operating. As Mendalla points out - for all any of us know Unsafe, Jae, revjohn might see God how God sees God.
Trouble is, which one?
Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
How much Pleasant is enough?
PilgrimsProgress
Well-Known Member
This brings up another issue - what is so wrong about doubting or questioning some aspects of faith?
For me, a mature faith implies that one gives serious thought and consideration to how faith is presented.
In doing so, I've been stuck by the thought that most (if not all) attribute to God their own concept of how God should be. (including me).
I also question revjohn's view about the wisdom of the elders in community - not only do they attribute their view of God to God like we all do- but I find a touch of misplaced arrogance in their "certainty".
We are all travellers in the dark following the light provided by our own candles........
For me, a mature faith implies that one gives serious thought and consideration to how faith is presented.
In doing so, I've been stuck by the thought that most (if not all) attribute to God their own concept of how God should be. (including me).
I also question revjohn's view about the wisdom of the elders in community - not only do they attribute their view of God to God like we all do- but I find a touch of misplaced arrogance in their "certainty".
We are all travellers in the dark following the light provided by our own candles........