God as Father?

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Waterfall said:
This was not always the case. I remember my dad (Anglican Priest) and his brother, my uncle Bill, (United church minister) arguing this point when I was young. Same argument for the LGBT community. Uncle Bill always preaching for it, my Dad preaching against it.
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Oh, agreed, but there was a time when even the United Church ordaining women was a big change and you didn't list them. The treatment of women as second class members is a Christian sin, really, not a sin of any one (or a few) denominations. It's just that some dealt with it earlier than others and a few haven't dealt with it, yet.

Jae said:
More accurately, I was a member of a Baptist church that doesn't allow women pastors and elders. For a time it also didn't allow women deacons, however that was changed - at the time I left, the first woman deacon had just recently been elected. However, that church's not having women pastors and elders (and for a time deacons) was not based on the notion that men are superior, greater than, better than, women. Rather, it was based on the concept that men are different than women.
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But, strangely, the "difference" always seems to involve men being the ones who belong in positions of respect or senior leadership.:rolleyes:
 
DaisyJane said:
My goodness. Are you really that obtuse? Or just trying to complicate the conversation to obscure your irrational point.
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Hope you're having a pleasant afternoon as well.

DaisyJane said:
...Some churches continue to do so.
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What unjust treatment of different categories of people have you witnessed taking place in churches DaisyJane?
 
Mendalla said:
...The treatment of women as second class members is a Christian sin, really, not a sin of any one (or a few) denominations...
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I absolutely agree Mendalla - the treatment of women as second class members is a sin.
 
Jae said:
I absolutely agree Mendalla - the treatment of women as second class members is a sin.
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ANd the point being made is that excluding people from leadership positions based on their gender is making them second-class citizens. Which you have just noted is sinful.
 
GordW said:
ANd the point being made is that excluding people from leadership positions based on their gender is making them second-class citizens. Which you have just noted is sinful.
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I disagree with the premise that excluding people from leadership positions based on their gender is necessarily making them second-class citizens.
 
blackbelt1961 said:
I guess because Jesus used & taught Father ,

Out Father who art in Heaven ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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In the original Aramaic the Lords prayer began:

"O cosmic birther, from whom the breath of life comes,
who fills all realms of sound, light and vibrations"

as it continues, there is no mention of God as Father.

From the Gospel of the Holy Twelve:
"Our father mother , who art above and within"

What we commonly used to translate the Lords Prayer into English is Mathews second century mistranslation in crude Greek and became the base for all other translations.

Henry the VIII, imposed an english translation to create a standard English version.
 
Jae said:
I disagree with the premise that excluding people from leadership positions based on their gender is necessarily making them second-class citizens.
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Please enlighten us how you have arrived at this conclusion.
 
Waterfall said:
In the original Aramaic the Lords prayer began:

"O cosmic birther, from whom the breath of life comes,
who fills all realms of sound, light and vibrations"

as it continues, there is no mention of God as Father.

From the Gospel of the Holy Twelve:
"Our father mother , who art above and within"

What we commonly used to translate the Lords Prayer into English is Mathews second century mistranslation in crude Greek and became the base for all other translations.

Henry the VIII, imposed an english translation to create a standard English version.
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Hebrew Translation is our Father, but it does not stop at the Lords Prayer alone , I believe Jesus Used the term ' Abba Father over 100 times
 
Jae said:
I disagree with the premise that excluding people from leadership positions based on their gender is necessarily making them second-class citizens.
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Perhps you might feel differently if you were a woman excluded from a leadership position (either explicitly, or implicitly).
 
Jae said:
I disagree with the premise that excluding people from leadership positions based on their gender is necessarily making them second-class citizens.
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Ironically, beliefs like this one *can* defensively be used to exclude people from leadership positions in Canada.

Unless you're a church. Then you can discriminate all you want. In some churches, this belief makes a man a better candidate for leadership.
 
Hi,

Going down memory lane looking at phrases I have used in the beginning of a prayer:

Compassionate One...
Gracious Presence...
Creator of Us All...
Listening One...
Beloved Lover...
God of our Ancestors...
God of the Past, the Present and the Future...​

I have no quarrel with those who know God as Father. Or with those who know God as Mother.

I will resist any who insist that their preferred designation as the only permitted designation.

George
 
Jae said:
I simply believe that everyone in the Church is equal. I do not hold that holding leadership positions makes some superior (better, greater) than others.
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How does it make everyone equal if women are not allowed to even apply to be a preacher within some churches?
 
GeoFee said:
Hi,

Going down memory lane looking at phrases I have used in the beginning of a prayer:

Compassionate One...
Gracious Presence...
Creator of Us All...
Listening One...
Beloved Lover...
God of our Ancestors...
God of the Past, the Present and the Future...​

I have no quarrel with those who know God as Father. Or with those who know God as Mother.

I will resist any who insist that their preferred designation as the only permitted designation.

George
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I agree, except when Father is preferred and becomes the norm....as it has for close to 2000 years. Good on you for being inclusive or more to the point....describing Gods attributes rather than gender.
 
DaisyJane said:
Perhps you might feel differently if you were a woman excluded from a leadership position (either explicitly, or implicitly).
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In all of the churches that I've been a part of, at least some of the leadership positions were available to women.
 
blackbelt1961 said:
Hebrew Translation is our Father, but it does not stop at the Lords Prayer alone , I believe Jesus Used the term ' Abba Father over 100 times
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Maybe more was lost in those translations also, I personally don't know, but it would make more sense when Jesus is speaking.
 
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